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Perry

Cael vs Sadulaev

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I think it would be close. Sad has the best gut of all the past russian great Lt Heavies. But I would put Sad on the same level as Sajidov and Gatsalov. Cael was right there with them. I bet they would split.

Edited by PRyan2012

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I do not think Snyder could beat Cael. Snyder and Varner have been pretty dead even with a very slight advantage to Kyle. Cael used to throttled Varner pretty good from 2009-2012-Varner's prime. Just saying.

Varner had a nice run in 2012 but I thought he looked better in the run up to the 2016 Olympics. I'd pick 2016 Varner over 2012 Varnish. Thought he had more offense in 2016.

 

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Can Lee Fullhart beat Snyder?

No way. The only top guy Lee could beat internationally was Cael. But when Lee would win it would be razor close. When Cael won they would be techs in todays scoring. Sajidov and Romero beat Lee pretty easily a few times.

Edited by PRyan2012

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Are the refs sticking to the rules or ignoring them and letting the opponent beat on Cael rather than wrestle? Watched this happen too often. Fulhart got away with murder because of it.

 

No way Kyle Snyder would beat Cael. Ankle pick to back points, Cael would be too fast for him.

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Are the refs sticking to the rules or ignoring them and letting the opponent beat on Cael rather than wrestle? Watched this happen too often. Fulhart got away with murder because of it.

 

No way Kyle Snyder would beat Cael. Ankle pick to back points, Cael would be too fast for him.

Assuming we're talking freestyle, Snyder has already won more at 21 then Cael did in his career.  And he did it with fewer weight classes.  Dismissing Snyder in this matchup is silly.  I think it'd be a heck of a match, and I have a hard time picking against the bigger and more accomplished man.  

Edited by boconnell

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Would Cael beat the Boy King? I have my doubts. Both trained very hard and came to the events very well prepared and in shape. Both have a great offense, but I believe that Kyle has the advantage in horsepower. Cael maybe in slickness. But even with all this, I am clueless as to who would prevail.

Cael was amazing in his prime, but you could argue that Kyle isn't anywhere near his prime yet, and if that is really the case, then I would have to say Kyle all the way.

Unfortunately Cael as well as the rest of our 2002 Men's Freestyle team were prevented from competing in 2002 due to security concerns. So had Cael won a title or a medal in 2002, it might make this a different conversation.

Cael obviously had an amazing college career, many would say the best ever, and I would not be one to argue against that, but as a freestyler, I seem to recall that he didn't have the same amazing success. Kyle also has had some losses, but so far has won (mostly) where and when it's counted.

Cael/Varner/Snyder, well Cael was Jake's coach and he was the master while Jake was the student, so I think there was a natural advantage there, and I wouldn't read to much into Cael handling Jake in the practice room.

Jake vs Kyle, well Jake was an Olympic Champion and a World Bronze medal winner, (as well as a 2009 World Team Member) and should've have held the advantage in experience. Additionally, the 2016 Varner seemed to be a quite bigger than he was in 2012. So you could say that Jake should've held the advantage in horsepower as well. (However, I guess one could ask, did that extra mass cause Jake's gas tank to suffer)?

Now the Kyle/Jake matches were fairly close, but again Kyle was a lot younger and up until he won the title in 2015, was really a Junior Wrestler, (albeit an outstanding Junior, with a World Gold and Bronze to his credit), but a Olympic Champ should have the advantage over a Junior World Champ.

But as I said above we are talking about Cael and Jake and their career accomplishments, versus a young man who is still in the beginning stages of his. And I may get some push back on this but after watching Kyle pretty much have his way with Gadson at the trials, I do believe that Kyle is still improving, so maybe we should argue this question many many years from now after Kyle has hung up his Spurs.

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I don't think you can really use the early accolades to gauge the two. Cael made the world team in 2001, but the date was moved because on 9/11. The new date had the potential to conflict with his final college season where he finished 159-0. So he gave his spot up. He made it again in 2002, but the USA cancelled for safety. In 2003 he made his 3rd world team and lost 3-4 in the finals claiming bronze. This was the first world championship he competed in. He also had little international experience. He can back in 2004 and won Olympic gold before retiring. I truly believe had he kept competing he would have racked up the world level hardware. I mean hell, he came back 7 years later after not wrestling a single match competitively and crushed Hebert to make another world team and went on and finished 5th. With just a few months of training after a 7 year layoff. Had he kept going he would have probably made 12 consecutive world) Olympic teams because nobody in the US would have beat him. To be home eat, get could probably lace up and go make the team now at 86kg. So I think it is hard to use accolades because of the circumstances that kept him out. On another note. US wrestlers weren't paid for world/Olympic medals back then. Had he got paid for winning Gold medals like the guys now he may have stuck around a few more years.

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I don't think you can really use the early accolades to gauge the two. Cael made the world team in 2001, but the date was moved because on 9/11. The new date had the potential to conflict with his final college season where he finished 159-0. So he gave his spot up. He made it again in 2002, but the USA cancelled for safety. In 2003 he made his 3rd world team and lost 3-4 in the finals claiming bronze. This was the first world championship he competed in. He also had little international experience. He can back in 2004 and won Olympic gold before retiring. I truly believe had he kept competing he would have racked up the world level hardware. I mean hell, he came back 7 years later after not wrestling a single match competitively and crushed Hebert to make another world team and went on and finished 5th. With just a few months of training after a 7 year layoff. Had he kept going he would have probably made 12 consecutive world) Olympic teams because nobody in the US would have beat him. To be home eat, get could probably lace up and go make the team now at 86kg. So I think it is hard to use accolades because of the circumstances that kept him out. On another note. US wrestlers weren't paid for world/Olympic medals back then. Had he got paid for winning Gold medals like the guys now he may have stuck around a few more years.

Cael competed in 3 World/Olympics and was 5,3,1.

Snyder competed in 2 World Olympics and was 1,1.

 

No matter how many Cael sat out for no matter what reasons, he went more than Snyder, and went just as many in his prime if you want to take out 2011.  So yes, it is entirely fair to use Snyder's superior international career to compare the two.

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Cael was a Silver medalist in 2003.

Unfortunately Cael did not get the chance to compete in 2001, or 2002. Which may have cost him two World Titles or Medals. And if he had those additional accolades, no doubt there would be different thoughts on this.

Additionally had Cael competed through another cycle, who knows how he would be ranked.

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Cael was a Silver medalist in 2003.

Unfortunately Cael did not get the chance to compete in 2001, or 2002. Which may have cost him two World Titles or Medals. And if he had those additional accolades, no doubt there would be different thoughts on this.

Additionally had Cael competed through another cycle, who knows how he would be ranked.

Those things are absolutely true, but we are comparing him to a guy who only competed in 2 Worlds/Olympics.  So number of times attending does not hurt Cael in the comparison, number of times winning does.

 

I don't say any of this to say Snyder is the clear winner.  I brought it up to a poster who declared Cael the obvious winner despite most of the evidence for a freestyle match going the other way.  

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Cael was robbed of the opportunity to get the feel of Sr level international competition in 2001.

 

The point about being able to make a living while wrestling is also a good one.

 

Had he gotten that experience earlier in 2001 and had there been money in it, who knows how many championships he'd have won.

 

But Cael did the best thing he could have done for USA and college wrestling by getting into coaching.

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Cael was robbed of the opportunity to get the feel of Sr level international competition in 2001.

 

The point about being able to make a living while wrestling is also a good one.

 

Had he gotten that experience earlier in 2001 and had there been money in it, who knows how many championships he'd have won.

 

But Cael did the best thing he could have done for USA and college wrestling by getting into coaching.

You are referring to 2002.  With respect to 2001, I don't recall if he couldn't make the team or if he didn't wrestle freestyle that year.

Nobody can predict  how many championships a person not motivated enough to try would have won.  A solid guess is zero.

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You are referring to 2002.  With respect to 2001, I don't recall if he couldn't make the team or if he didn't wrestle freestyle that year.

Nobody can predict  how many championships a person not motivated enough to try would have won.  A solid guess is zero.

 

 

Please apply said logic to Aaron Pico vs. Zain and the Worlds. 

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You are referring to 2002.  With respect to 2001, I don't recall if he couldn't make the team or if he didn't wrestle freestyle that year.

Nobody can predict  how many championships a person not motivated enough to try would have won.  A solid guess is zero.

 

 

If they made it financially worthwhile then perhaps said wrestler keeps wrestling instead of going into coaching. 

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If they made it financially worthwhile then perhaps said wrestler keeps wrestling instead of going into coaching. 

Who is 'they'?  Others have made it feasible.  Especially the ones who have earned an Olympic gold medal, have the biggest name in the sport, shope contracts, endorsements, camps and son and so forth.

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