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Angry_Fish

Cael Unemployed as of Midnight Last Night

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So you're mad that this person wants to focus more on academics at a university???? I completely understand outcry when wrestling gets funds diverted to football/baseball/women's crew/etc (and I feel the same), but the whole point of a university is academics/research.

 

And you can complain about the UC system, but it is by far the best state university system in the country. UCSF and UC Berkeley are equivalent to Harvard/MIT/Stanford in terms of research. UCSD is not far behind. Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD, and UCSB are all excellent undergraduate institutions (the first three all being better than PSU).

 

As a resident of NY, our Unis are not even close and we are forced to go out of state.

Well, the official "land grant institution" of New York is actually, quite literally, an Ivy League school.

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Well, the official "land grant institution" of New York is actually, quite literally, an Ivy League school.

I'm not sure what the procedure would be for the state to reclaim Cornell and not only have the farm and hotel schools as "state schools," but I don't see it happening any time soon.  

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The overall point of your post has some merit but this part is just pure BS. Sorry for the bluntness.

Actually, it's completely accurate.  Don't let your view of undergraduate "rankings" impact your understand (or more accurately lack thereof) of where research happens.  

 

Edit:  to just elaborate a bit.  It is well known that there are two main research "hubs" in the U.S. right now.  One is in Boston and is centered around MIT/Harvard, and the other is in the bay area and centered around Berkeley/UCSF/Stanford.  The UC system has done an outstanding job fostering research in the state, allowing them to compete with MIT/Harvard.  And yes, having silicon valley right there does help. 

 

And if you were referring to UCSD, they are very much connected to Scripps, and have one of the best research programs in the world (although admittedly a step behind the very best.  Still, it's outstanding for a "state school."  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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Actually, it's completely accurate. Don't let your view of undergraduate "rankings" impact your understand (or more accurately lack thereof) of where research happens.

It's not accurate. I used to raise funds for an elite research school for a living. You may want to review your info again....

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It's not accurate. I used to raise funds for an elite research school for a living. You may want to review your info again....

I think we can all agree that while the aforementioned schools in your posts are all prestigious universities, they don't compare to Trump University. I should know. I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

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It's not accurate. I used to raise funds for an elite research school for a living. You may want to review your info again....

So your job was to call people asking for money.  What does that have to do with research?  If i were talking about which schools raised the most money from their alumni, i'd refer to your opinion.  My point is simple:  The UC system is outstanding, and the research carried out at those universities exemplifies that.  It is better than any other state system in the country and UCSF/ UCB are on par with MIT/Harvard.  

 

So the poster criticizing an administrator who wants to focus on academics and potentially turn PSU into UCB probably shouldn't be so upset.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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So you're mad that this person wants to focus more on academics at a university???? I completely understand outcry when wrestling gets funds diverted to football/baseball/women's crew/etc (and I feel the same), but the whole point of a university is academics/research.

 

And you can complain about the UC system, but it is by far the best state university system in the country. UCSF and UC Berkeley are equivalent to Harvard/MIT/Stanford in terms of research. UCSD is not far behind. Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD, and UCSB are all excellent undergraduate institutions (the first three all being better than PSU).

 

As a resident of NY, our Unis are not even close and we are forced to go out of state.

And here I thought it was South Dakota or New Jersey.

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1) So you're mad that this person wants to focus more on academics at a university???? 

2) And you can complain about the UC system, but it is by far the best state university system in the country. UCSF and UC Berkeley are equivalent to Harvard/MIT/Stanford in terms of research. UCSD is not far behind. Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD, and UCSB are all excellent undergraduate institutions (the first three all being better than PSU).

 

1) Does my post come off as "mad" to you? It would appear you aren't familiar with how taxpayer revenue funds work in terms of state university systems and how the donor system to athletics work.

 

2) As a product of the UC system for my graduate school years I disagree with your assessment as does the fact they maintained a slush fund of over 175 million dollars. Hiding funds provided by the taxpayer isn't something typically associated with "best" of anything but if that is your cup of tea... fair enough.... In terms of your statement about "research" there is no primary source data to substantiate that statement. 

Edited by cm_111

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This is definitely an odd turn of events that his new contract hasn't been put together and signed, but there's no way it doesn't get done.  No way Barbour can push out someone who has put that much prestige and success without much of a scandal outside of the Andrew Long situation, which was YEARS ago now.  She may be trying to push him down in his demands, but he holds more cards and power within the university, I have to believe.

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That has to do with expenditures (funding). Frankly I have no idea how we landed at research in colleges but from alumni donations and improper money diversion but, ah well. 

I took umbrage with two parts of your post.  One was the criticism of PSU for shifting $$$ from athletics to academics.  Personally, I don't see a problem with that.  It's not the same as cutting funding for athletics or reallocating it to sports like baseball/women's crew/etc.  The point of universities is to educate and carry out research. Everybody that donates to athletic departments (myself included) knows that the budget is set prior to your donation, and you are really donating to the university.  It's not as if donating $100  to a wrestling program increases the funding of that program by $100 (hopefully wrestlingnerd will back me up on this one, since this is his area of expertise and not mine). 

 

The second was your characterization of Cali as having the most corrupt university system in the country...It is actually (by far) the best university system in the country. 

 

None of that has anything to do with Cael, other than it being perfectly justifiable for the AD  to carry out a tough negotiation of his salary.

Edited by Billyhoyle

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That has to do with expenditures (funding). Frankly I have no idea how we landed at research in colleges but from alumni donations and improper money diversion but, ah well.

Perhaps because research and publication are the primary purpose of large state universities? And is where the actual serious money that supports the Universities resides? We're talking budgets of billions/year at a lot of them. Edited by ccrider55

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Other than bragging rights, how does having the best wrestling team in the country benefit the university? If wrestling is still operating at a loss (which is a little hard to believe given the ticket and merchandise sales), it doesn't make financial sense for the university to sink a lot of money into their wrestling coaches. It's not like they are bringing in a lot more tuition money for the university by winning wrestling national championships. With that said, I do think Cael has earned a raise... Just not sure if the university will want to put up that kind of money. You got to figure he is asking for big raises for all his assistants too

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I took umbrage with two parts of your post.  One was the criticism of PSU for shifting $$$ from athletics to academics.  Personally, I don't see a problem with that.  It's not the same as cutting funding for athletics or reallocating it to sports like baseball/women's crew/etc.  The point of universities is to educate and carry out research. Everybody that donates to athletic departments (myself included) knows that the budget is set prior to your donation, and you are really donating to the university.  It's not as if donating $100  to a wrestling program increases the funding of that program by $100 (hopefully wrestlingnerd will back me up on this one, since this is his area of expertise and not mine). 

 

The second was your characterization of Cali as having the most corrupt university system in the country...It is actually (by far) the best university system in the country. 

 

None of that has anything to do with Cael, other than it being perfectly justifiable for the AD  to carry out a tough negotiation of his salary.

You're going way off topic and reading a monumental amount off statements merely alluding to track record in consideration to current situation. When you say "best" you have brought up research and therefore it is likely logical to conclude you are speaking directly to their graduation and academic record. Both of those have absolutely nothing to do with fraudulent money misuse. When something has hidden funds that should raise the eyebrows of people and especially so when the state auditor even called it out in a report. Such things equate to mismanagement which, again, has little to nothing to do with how a student excels in a classroom. 

 

So, yes you're right, none of this has anything to do with Cael and I have absolutely no idea why it was even brought up as I merely was bringing up the individual, their track record, and how that may logically be a reason for the issue. 

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You're going way off topic and reading a monumental amount off statements merely alluding to track record in consideration to current situation. When you say "best" you have brought up research and therefore it is likely logical to conclude you are speaking directly to their graduation and academic record. Both of those have absolutely nothing to do with fraudulent money misuse. When something has hidden funds that should raise the eyebrows of people and especially so when the state auditor even called it out in a report. Such things equate to mismanagement which, again, has little to nothing to do with how a student excels in a classroom. 

 

So, yes you're right, none of this has anything to do with Cael and I have absolutely no idea why it was even brought up as I merely was bringing up the individual, their track record, and how that may logically be a reason for the issue. 

"Perhaps the greatest misstep of Barbour’s tenure came in the classroom. NCAA data released last fall revealed that Cal’s football graduation rate (44 percent) was the worst of any school in the major conferences, humiliating the university and leading to speculation about Barbour’s future."

 

From: http://www.mercurynews.com/2014/06/26/cals-sandy-barbour-out-as-athletic-director/

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So your job was to call people asking for money.  What does that have to do with research?  If i were talking about which schools raised the most money from their alumni, i'd refer to your opinion.  My point is simple:  The UC system is outstanding, and the research carried out at those universities exemplifies that.  It is better than any other state system in the country and UCSF/ UCB are on par with MIT/Harvard.  

 

So the poster criticizing an administrator who wants to focus on academics and potentially turn PSU into UCB probably shouldn't be so upset.  

 

My job was to contribute to the raising of hundreds of millions of dollars for, among other things, research. If you think capital is not related to the quality of a research university, you clearly have zero experience in the field. It has everything to do with the so-called "best" institutions. If you think a university's ranking and relative prestige has nothing to do with attracting capital, especially for research, you are even more mistaken.

 

I have no problem with what you said about the CA system other than when you said it was the equivalent of Harvard, MIT, and Stanford. That's just sillly.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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The purpose of Penn St is football. All other sports and academics are there to play a supporting role. They are necessary for the football team to be part of the NCAA and enhance the facade.

 

The alumni reaction to the scandal made that clear. I'm not suggesting that the alumni approved of JS's hideous crimes, but it was clear from GO that they were not going to allow the scandal to stand in the way of PSU's ultimate mission which is winning games on Saturdays in the Fall and having an elite tailgate scene.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Just to give an example of what I am talking about:

 

http://onwardstate.com/2015/01/18/ad-sandy-barbour-apologies-for-409-helmet-stickers/

 

Some of you know me personally here and know I speak directly with a good amount of personnel I worked with or competed against. I bring this up only to point out that many of these things I stated come directly from opinions of people close to that situation and their disappointment in the way she handles things. Another example is, apparently, she has put forward a proposal to take a substantial chunk of athletic funding to be diverted into the academic sections of the university. Her big play is she wants to combine the funding of the athletic department and academic sections for diversity and equality to all students on campus. The behind door argument has, of course, been that it is a state school and thus already receives tax payer funded monies for the academic sections and that she has no right to push taking from donations from alum to divert. I bring this up only to point out that if the Cael issue persists and if people start to research and dig into this issue then this issue may become a bigger issue.

 

Put it to you this way. The California university system runs much differently and is far more corrupt than any other system in the nation in terms of diverting funds. At the top of that list is Berkeley and she was fired from Berkeley after accusations of mismanagement with some claiming she diverted too much and even some claiming monies "disappeared". In other words, too extreme for a place that is already well known to be corrupt in terms of funds being diverted and moved around. That says a lot when a person is too extreme for even Berkeley. I bring this up because, again, CA is already well known as the most corrupt university system in the nation as you can see here (few examples):

 

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/2017-04-25/audit-university-of-california-hid-175m-in-secret-fund

 

http://www.mygovcost.org/2017/04/27/california-states-secret-slush-funds/

 

http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-university-of-california-administration-1493137774-htmlstory.html

 

Point being, you Penn State alum/fans may want to dig into this issue because track records matter and this individual has a very bad reputation in terms of the exact thing she is currently in control of and currently making decisions for. In my eyes this is much bigger of a deal that it may appear.

Everything I've read said the biggest reason her tenure ended at Cal was due to poor graduation rates. The decline of the football program and some mismanagement of debt were also reasons, but it seemed they had the debt because of all the investments they made in new facilities - apparently the most a university has ever invested in athletics. She was also then given another position at the school - surely that would have never happened if she was fired for "diverting funds."

 

I tried to find info about her apparent "proposal" at PSU, and the closest thing I could find was that she apparently donated $100k of her own money to go towards a new academic center...for student-athletes. Are you sure "what you heard" was about her wanting to support academics in general and not the academics of student-athletes? Considering academics seems to be a main reason she's no longer at Cal, I think it's reasonable for her to put a lot of focus on that at PSU.

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