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There are so few wrestling scholarships available that UT would get kids from other states if they had money. Just look at the non scholarship bluechip kids at schools like Penn State that can't even make the lineup. Some of those kids could be lured to Texas if money was available. If Texas started wrestling, they would definitely be competitive.

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There are so few wrestling scholarships available that UT would get kids from other states if they had money. Just look at the non scholarship bluechip kids at schools like Penn State that can't even make the lineup. Some of those kids could be lured to Texas if money was available. If Texas started wrestling, they would definitely be competitive.

 

Agreed. Probably the one school that would be nationally relevant within three seasons of starting the sport. 

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Has UT ever had a program? I am an old dog having wrestled back in the 1970s and I don't remember UT ever having somebody in the mix for anything. If they had a program at some point, when did they drop it? 

 

The assertion was made that if UT had a program and money that they would be "relevent" within a couple of years; given the history of UT wrestling, why would someone presume that UT would suddenly vault into relevance. While TX HS wrestling is growing, it is still woefully underdeveloped in comparison with many other Midwestern states, e.g., IL, IA, MN, WI, IN, MI, OH, etc.

 

CA has some great HS wrestling and yet their few programs are struggling to hang on. IL also has great HS wrestling and yet their university programs never seem to actually be in title contention for anything. So, I fail to see why one would think that a suddenly resurrected program at UT would be expected to compete for anything. It would be nice for USA folkstyle wrestling if that were true (e.g., if you build it, they will come), but I just don't think the recipe is that simple.

 

And too, I think Texans are unique creatures; they go big or they go home. They love the spectacle of Friday night football and they also like their BB. Not sure at all that they would support a niche sport like wrestling that toils in the shadows.

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Bob Johnson (Oklahoma State) was a two-time champion, I think once Bo wins his second, he can lay claim to that title.

 

BTW, Ophir Bernstein of Brown was the first college AA from Allen HS.

With the difference between wrestling now and wrestling 55 years ago when Johnson competed, I'm fine with saying it's Bo.

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Wasn't there another high ranked kid right before Nickel? Maybe started at Oklahoma or ASU

 

There have been a few. Most of the better Texas kids to make it to D1 seem to be R16 type guys (no offense to Nickal) at best. OU's had a few like that. I think OU had a kid who backed out of a commit a few years ago and went to ASU, but I can't remember his name.

 

(Note: added the following after reading the thread further)

 

Guess I should have read the whole thread before replying, I saw you answered your own question with Oliver Pierce. I don't think he's even broken the starting lineup anywhere has he?

Edited by TobusRex

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Of course he would have! The only reason PSU is any good is becuase they get the best recruits! Those recruits would win national titles without Cael and co. Even a monkey could coach him to a national title.

 

Are you being sarcastic? If not I have to disagree with you. I think the PSU room must be the best in the country by a fair margin. The guys Nickal is rolling around in practice every day push him a lot harder than the wrestlers anywhere else could. He's improving faster there under Cael's tutelage than he would anywhere else. I bet he rolls around with Cael routinely as well

Edited by TobusRex

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Are you being sarcastic? If not I have to disagree with you. I think the PSU room must be the best in the country by a fair margin. The guys Nickal is rolling around in practice every day push him a lot harder than the wrestlers anywhere else could. He's improving faster there under Cael's tutelage than he would anywhere else. I bet he rolls around with Cael routinely as well

Yes, I'm being VERY sarcastic. It's in response to posts claiming that Cael and Co are not great coaches and only win being of their recruiting, especially a post a few weeks ago claiming that the janitor could coach the PSU room to a national title.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Yes, I'm being VERY sarcastic. It's in response to posts claiming that Cael and Co are not great coaches and only win being of their recruiting, especially a post a few weeks ago claiming that the janitor could coach the PSU room to a national title.

 

I suspected as much, but wasn't sure :D

 

Cael is obviously a great coach.

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Guest Kingsland

Pierce started 2 years ago for ASU and was a national qualifier. It's doutful he cracks the lineup again with Shields, Tsirtsis, and A. Valencia all around his weight.

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Has UT ever had a program? I am an old dog having wrestled back in the 1970s and I don't remember UT ever having somebody in the mix for anything. If they had a program at some point, when did they drop it? 

 

The assertion was made that if UT had a program and money that they would be "relevent" within a couple of years; given the history of UT wrestling, why would someone presume that UT would suddenly vault into relevance. While TX HS wrestling is growing, it is still woefully underdeveloped in comparison with many other Midwestern states, e.g., IL, IA, MN, WI, IN, MI, OH, etc.

 

CA has some great HS wrestling and yet their few programs are struggling to hang on. IL also has great HS wrestling and yet their university programs never seem to actually be in title contention for anything. So, I fail to see why one would think that a suddenly resurrected program at UT would be expected to compete for anything. It would be nice for USA folkstyle wrestling if that were true (e.g., if you build it, they will come), but I just don't think the recipe is that simple.

 

And too, I think Texans are unique creatures; they go big or they go home. They love the spectacle of Friday night football and they also like their BB. Not sure at all that they would support a niche sport like wrestling that toils in the shadows.

 

I was doing media work when Texas and Ohio State played a football home and home series in 2005 and 2006.  I knew Texas had a program because I had researched Ohio State's early wrestling teams.  

 

In doing research I learned that Texas had a varsity wrestling program from the early teens until the mid 1930's.  Their team predated the first NCAA wrestling tournament in 1928 and was disbanded in 1933 or 1934 (I think) because the gym where they practiced and competed burnt down.  Their website has since been rebranded from the old CSTV (i think) format that many used in the early days college athletic departments on the internet but they use to have year books in pdf form online.  If someone wants to go to the UT library to do the research, I am sure they have the old yearbooks and they hold all of the archives for now defunct Southwest Conference (SWC) as well.

 

In a quick search of the HOF in their current website they have four former varsity wrestlers in the Hall of Honor:

 

Maj. Gen. Kearie Lee Berry 1915-16

http://www.texassports.com/aa.aspx?hid=39

 

George P. Hill 1921

http://www.texassports.com/aa.aspx?hid=164

 

John Aubrey Gooch 1926

http://www.texassports.com/aa.aspx?hid=133

 

Ralph Hammonds 1926-28

http://www.texassports.com/aa.aspx?hid=147

 

At the first NCAA championships in 1928, Hammonds lost in the 175 lb finals to Oklahoma A&M's George Rule (now Oklahoma State) and won a true second match against Floyd Helgerson (Ohio State)  In his bio he is listed as a three-time SWC conference champion as well. 

 

http://www.wrestlingstats.com/ncaa/pdf/brackets/NCAA%201928.pdf

 
If anyone wants to spend some time on the late, great, Hall of Fame historian Jairus Hammonds website, you can probably track when they stopped appearing.  If not, you should still visit because it is great for research, you can probably learn something, and J was a great guy and would appreciate it.
 
Edited by KSchlosser

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With the difference between wrestling now and wrestling 55 years ago when Johnson competed, I'm fine with saying it's Bo.

You are just going to dismiss all the great wrestlers from the 1960s?

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To comply with Title IX, I would guess that Texas would either have to add another women's sport or drop a men's sport, if they wanted to bring wrestling in.  Not saying that couldn't happen, but there's probably more to it than just adding wrestling.

Edited by KCMO2

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In order to stay in compliance with Title IX, I would guess that Texas would either have to add another women's sport or drop a men's sport, if they wanted to bring wrestling in.  Not saying that couldn't happen, but there's probably more to it than just adding wrestling.

 

The GOP is in charge of House, Senate, and the Executive Branch. NOW is the time to push to overturn Title 9. I dislike the GOP in general but I think they'd happily dissolve Title 9 if they could get away with it, and we may as well get something positive out of this Congress.

 

For the record: I think the likelihood of college wrestling roaring back to life like the Phoenix from the ashes is nil. Wrestling loses money, simply put. How many D1 wrestling programs turn a profit? 1? 2? 15? OU struggles to put more than a couple hundred in the seats, and that's a traditional wrestling power (granted, they've been down for awhile).

 

We're all wishfully thinking here because we're bored, lol.

Edited by TobusRex

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Has UT ever had a program? I am an old dog having wrestled back in the 1970s and I don't remember UT ever having somebody in the mix for anything. If they had a program at some point, when did they drop it?

 

The assertion was made that if UT had a program and money that they would be "relevent" within a couple of years; given the history of UT wrestling, why would someone presume that UT would suddenly vault into relevance. While TX HS wrestling is growing, it is still woefully underdeveloped in comparison with many other Midwestern states, e.g., IL, IA, MN, WI, IN, MI, OH, etc.

 

CA has some great HS wrestling and yet their few programs are struggling to hang on. IL also has great HS wrestling and yet their university programs never seem to actually be in title contention for anything. So, I fail to see why one would think that a suddenly resurrected program at UT would be expected to compete for anything. It would be nice for USA folkstyle wrestling if that were true (e.g., if you build it, they will come), but I just don't think the recipe is that simple.

 

And too, I think Texans are unique creatures; they go big or they go home. They love the spectacle of Friday night football and they also like their BB. Not sure at all that they would support a niche sport like wrestling that toils in the shadows.

Out of state wrestlers. See schools like NC State/UNC/Duke who don't rely much on in-state wrestlers (although while the HS numbers in NC might not be improving, I think the quality is). And with their football program Texas should have more resources available.

 

Wasn't one of the Cleveland State AD's arguments that the lacrosse team would bring in more out-of-state students? If that is something schools are looking for, might as well try to actually use it in wrestling's favor.

Edited by 1032004

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Yes, I'm being VERY sarcastic. It's in response to posts claiming that Cael and Co are not great coaches and only win being of their recruiting, especially a post a few weeks ago claiming that the janitor could coach the PSU room to a national title.

We used to hear this same kind of stuff after Gary Kurelemeier and then Dan Gable put Iowa on the map in the Wrestling World. Some called for Gable to be banned because of his brutal workouts with his wrestlers. Then the 'he gets the best guys' argument would come up.

 

Face it, Gable was God and Cael is working on it.

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We used to hear this same kind of stuff after Gary Kurelemeier and then Dan Gable put Iowa on the map in the Wrestling World. Some called for Gable to be banned because of his brutal workouts with his wrestlers. Then the 'he gets the best guys' argument would come up.

 

Face it, Gable was God and Cael is working on it.

Never said or implied that Cael has reached Gable status when it comes to coaching. He certainly is well on his way however...

 

Gable isn't just the greatest wrestling coach or all time, he may well be one of the greatest coaches of all time in ANY sport.

 

And I believe it's spelled Kurdelmeier.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Out of state wrestlers. See schools like NC State/UNC/Duke who don't rely much on in-state wrestlers (although while the HS numbers in NC might not be improving, I think the quality is). And with their football program Texas should have more resources available.

 

Wasn't one of the Cleveland State AD's arguments that the lacrosse team would bring in more out-of-state students? If that is something schools are looking for, might as well try to actually use it in wrestling's favor.

UT had 40K applicants in 2014.  They aren't looking for more students or applicants.  They don't need the money out of state tuition brings in like Cleveland St.

 

UT will not be adding a program in a non-revenue sport so they can get recruits from 500 miles away and go to matches further than that.  Even if they added women's wrestling, they'd be more likely to add Men's soccer or Lacrosse.

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Pierce and Nickal went to the same HS, Allen in NE Dallas. Pierce was the first real star there. I saw him as a freshman and he was so good in every position. Nickal by comparison got beat in the Texas state finals as a freshman 125 lb. He was in love with big moves and lost to a senior from Amarillo who rode him hard and didn't let his big moves work. At that point I would have bet Pierce had the style for college wrestling, but Nickal is probably already the greatest college wrestler ever from Texas.

Probably won't surpass Nickal as the best to come out of Texas, but from e erythema I've read and gathered the super sophomore AJ Ferrari will probable end up right behind Nickal and definitely be in its conversation. It's always even more impressive when a young talent is an upper weight like Ferrari is as well, I think he's 182 if I'm not mistaken. Like back when Chris Phillips dominated the Ohio scene...I love following that sort of dominance versus the freshman or sophomore 106-125 pounders. This Ferrari kid is already ranked #4 overall in his class and will easily end up being a top 3-5 recruit for Class of 2020. Not that it means anything, but a ohiowrestling.net poster mentioned Tom Ryan is very active in communicating with this kid on Twitter, and the activity started only about a month or two ago. His teammate and friend Braeden Redlin has already committed to the Bucks, which obviously helps their cause if they are indeed targeting/recruiting him.

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Before Jay  became our Historian, Don Sayenga was. Really Don was more personal and Jay more Statistical. Anyway, many years ago Don wrote an article on U Texas Wrestling. They had a real star just before the NCAA tournament. But after he left, they quickly ignored the problem to death. On NPR there was yesterday (2017/12/11) an article on UT's endowment (from oil). Second largest, behind Harvard, They receive $600M from it annually, but only spend 10% of the funds on scholarships. Obviously they have gigantic amounts they could spend for wrestling, even without a Boone Pickens style sugar daddy. But the lack of breadth in their athletic programs. They only have 20 sports, counting M+W CC, Indoor + Outdoor T&F as 6-- and I think that is more than any of the SEC teams.

 

-----------------------------

 

Title 9 is, to Republicans, only important when Democrats are in charge. Just like the National Debt. 

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Pennsylvania numbers are always inaccurate. PIAA decides how many athletes are on a team (I think they increased that number by 1-2 when Pa added 215 wc) then multiply by the number of teams. The increased numbers may come mainly from the addition of District 12- first Philadelphia Public Schools, Then Phila, Catholic league. --- and of course these numbers don't include non PIAA  Prep Schools like Wyoming Sem, Haverford, Penn Charter.

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