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Frank_Rizzo

Suriano to Rutgers?

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PSU campus is nice but doesn't compare with schools like Wisconsin. Rutgers is at the bottom of the heap when it comes to campus looks. New Brunswick is not a nice place

 

New Brunswick is a dreadful place; there's just no two ways about it.  Even by New Jersey standards. 

 

Rutgers is also unimpressive academically. 

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New Brunswick is a dreadful place; there's just no two ways about it. Even by New Jersey standards.

 

Rutgers is also unimpressive academically.

It's one of the top 30 public Universities in the US.

 

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public

 

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Edited by cjc007

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Yea but that translates to #70 (or so) overall and is mid-pack in the B1G.

 

Not talking Ivy League here......

It's not Ivy League, but it is a legitimate University.

 

 

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It's not Ivy League, but it is a legitimate University.

 

 

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No question.  It is strictly in the middle (or so) of the B1G.  It is (on average) not as good as schools like UM or Illinois and better than Indiana or Nebraska. 

 

But the comment was: Rutgers is also unimpressive academically  

 

I would not be impressed with a degree from Rutgers, but nor would I discount someone from there either. 

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No question. It is strictly in the middle (or so) of the B1G. It is (on average) not as good as schools like UM or Illinois and better than Indiana or Nebraska.

 

But the comment was: Rutgers is also unimpressive academically

 

I would not be impressed with a degree from Rutgers, but nor would I discount someone from there either.

I'm impressed with anyone who could live in New Brunswick for 4 years.

 

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At Bergen Catholic Nick was the only big fish in a pond. At PSU he is a big fish in a pond with bigger fish. Rutgers may give him a sense of importance that he had in high school and is missing at Penn State. (I wonder how Mr. Suriano feels sitting next to Mr. Rutherford?)

 

Or even Mr. Retherford

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This full ride stuff needs to be put into context.  There's other money and funding available to these guys before the wrestling money even takes effect.    Taylor is an  example I've seen where much of his funding was academic and other grants/awards.    I've seen some very informed posts on this, but it appears to be largely ignored on this topic.     You don't need a full ride wrestling scholarship if part of the expense is covered through other means.           Most of us know that.    

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This full ride stuff needs to be put into context. There's other money and funding available to these guys before the wrestling money even takes effect. Taylor is an example I've seen where much of his funding was academic and other grants/awards. I've seen some very informed posts on this, but it appears to be largely ignored on this topic. You don't need a full ride wrestling scholarship if part of the expense is covered through other means. Most of us know that.

Can they pay the guys like they do with football and basketball?

 

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Guys. Have we forgot BIG also transferred from psu to Rutgers?

 

It's obvious what Suriano is looking to do. Probably even wants to go heavyweight like BIG did (albeit from 157 at psu.)

I thought he started his college career as a starving 141, no?

 

 

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Guys. Have we forgot BIG also transferred from psu to Rutgers?

 

It's obvious what Suriano is looking to do. Probably even wants to go heavyweight like BIG did (albeit from 157 at psu.)

but Scribe, Rutgers was a lowly EIWA school then (and Penn St might have still been a lowly EWL member as well). So while BIG has shown us the way in terms of PSU to Rutgers movement, and packing on quality weight, there are a few other factors in play these days. 

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This full ride stuff needs to be put into context.  There's other money and funding available to these guys before the wrestling money even takes effect.    Taylor is an  example I've seen where much of his funding was academic and other grants/awards.    I've seen some very informed posts on this, but it appears to be largely ignored on this topic.     You don't need a full ride wrestling scholarship if part of the expense is covered through other means.           Most of us know that.    

 

That is not entirely true.  There are only some scholarships that are exempt. 

 

An athlete can get a merit scholarship for academics and have it count against the team's scholarship limit.

 

There have been many instances where a coach offers an athlete 10k for athletic scholarship and then the athlete gets 10k from the school for institutional scholarships and the athlete is only permitted to accept one of the two.  This often leads to families reconsidering since they were working on the assumption that they could stack both scholarships to get 20k.

 

Schools that aren't fully funded often have counters that actually aren't getting money from an athletic scholarships.

 

For instance, if a D1 wrestler at Generic University gets awarded a non-exempt scholarship worth half a scholarship and the wrestling program only has a budget for five scholarships, the athlete can accept their half scholarship because it will only raise the wrestling teams countable awards to 5.5.  If that athlete quits the team, they can keep their scholarship since it isn't for wrestling and the next year it will be removed from the team's limit.

 

The most common issue is actually when an athlete is walking on to a team and they know that they aren't getting a scholarship.  They apply and are accepted  to the school and they get their financial aid package.  The family is happy because they are getting some support.  However, they later learn, when the athletic department goes to certify the roster, that one of the scholarships in the financial aid package isn't exempt from NCAA team limits  and thus has to count against the team limit if accepted. 

 

This leads to only a few options.

1 - The athlete can compete for the team if they decline the scholarship.

2 - The athlete can accept the scholarship but not be permitted to be on the team.

3 - The athlete can explore options at other schools.

 

These types of situations actually happen fairly regularly though schools try to communicate what aid prospective athletes are getting so that the athletic department is aware of how much is going to count against their limit.

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Not sure I'm reading you correctly, but for several years now most academic awards are exempt from counting as part of the 9.9. If a kid gets both he is a counter based on the athletic portion but only to the extent of the amount given athletically (and with certain stipulations on the academic awards). He can accept both assuming it doesn't exceed individual limits for that school.

 

15.5.3.2.4

 

I don't think this applies to head count sports like football/bball where it's a full or nothing. 

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Not sure I'm reading you correctly, but for several years now most academic awards are exempt from counting as part of the 9.9. If a kid gets both he is a counter based on the athletic portion but only to the extent of the amount given athletically (and with certain stipulations on the academic awards). He can accept both assuming it doesn't exceed individual limits for that school.

 

15.5.3.2.4

 

I don't think this applies to head count sports like football/bball where it's a full or nothing. 

 

Most are exempt.  But that doesn't mean all are exempt. There is a means test (of course, that is a very low bar).

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That is not entirely true.  There are only some scholarships that are exempt. 

 

An athlete can get a merit scholarship for academics and have it count against the team's scholarship limit.

 

There have been many instances where a coach offers an athlete 10k for athletic scholarship and then the athlete gets 10k from the school for institutional scholarships and the athlete is only permitted to accept one of the two.  This often leads to families reconsidering since they were working on the assumption that they could stack both scholarships to get 20k.

 

Schools that aren't fully funded often have counters that actually aren't getting money from an athletic scholarships.

 

For instance, if a D1 wrestler at Generic University gets awarded a non-exempt scholarship worth half a scholarship and the wrestling program only has a budget for five scholarships, the athlete can accept their half scholarship because it will only raise the wrestling teams countable awards to 5.5.  If that athlete quits the team, they can keep their scholarship since it isn't for wrestling and the next year it will be removed from the team's limit.

 

The most common issue is actually when an athlete is walking on to a team and they know that they aren't getting a scholarship.  They apply and are accepted  to the school and they get their financial aid package.  The family is happy because they are getting some support.  However, they later learn, when the athletic department goes to certify the roster, that one of the scholarships in the financial aid package isn't exempt from NCAA team limits  and thus has to count against the team limit if accepted. 

 

This leads to only a few options.

1 - The athlete can compete for the team if they decline the scholarship.

2 - The athlete can accept the scholarship but not be permitted to be on the team.

3 - The athlete can explore options at other schools.

 

These types of situations actually happen fairly regularly though schools try to communicate what aid prospective athletes are getting so that the athletic department is aware of how much is going to count against their limit.

 

 

 

Thank you.   This is the discussion i was hoping to add to the topic.   Does the above apply to the  Penn State situation?    

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Thank you.   This is the discussion i was hoping to add to the topic.   Does the above apply to the  Penn State situation?    

 

I wouldn't know.  Individual financial aid packages are private. 

 

It is important to mention that when you rely on non-athletic merit or need based money, it can change year to year. 

 

If you sign a kid whose dad has been laid off in the last year he may qualify for a lot of aid.  The next year the dad makes six figures and suddenly he is getting no financial aid. 

 

You have a kid who gets a big merit scholarship for his high school grades but he turns in a 2.8 in his first year in school.  Maybe the 2.8 is actually a reasonable GPA since the kid was wrestling in the lineup as a true freshmen and was taking some of the more demanding courses they will take as an engineering student.  But now they lost their money (or it becomes non-exempt). 

 

All of these things can come on short notice for a team and can impact the rest of the team's financial situations. 

 

Do you give these kids money from your team's budget to keep them (which might mean another kid can't join the team), ask them to take out loans, hope their parents like them at the school enough to come up with the money, or pick up the phone and call some other programs that might be interested in having them as a transfer?

 

That isn't to say that these things happen too often.  Most kids have pretty consistent aid packages throughout school but there are instances when things can fluctuate a lot.

 

My point is simply that these things can be a lot more convoluted than they may seem. 

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If a guy like Suriano is not getting a full scholarship (although I don't know if he isn't) then that says a lot about the state of D1 wrestling IMO.

does it though? Obviously talent wise, yes he would warrant one but when you consider his teammates, there is only so much money to go around.

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