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BigTimeFan

Who could have beaten Cael in college?

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The Askren and Pendleton threads have opened up some interesting discussion, so I am continuing the trend. It's possible this has been discussed before but I don't recall having seen it.

 

Cael was an undefeated 4x champ. At least part of that is due to his competition. We don't know for sure if someone from a different era could have beaten him, i.e., that he was truly unbeatable. After all he sustained a loss to Jenn his redshirt year so we know if he didn't redshirt he might have taken a few L's. History is about timing.

 

So here's a list of a few guys who prime-vs-prime or prime-vs-frosh might have prevented either Cael's undefeated college career or his 4x status for discussion. 

 

Mark Schultz

Ed Banach

Jim or Bill Scherr

Les Gutches

 

Of these guys I rate Bill Scherr or Mark Schultz with the greatest chances.

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It seems like as the sport progresses so does the ability to close the gap. Stieber went from a poor performance against JO in the dual, to turning the tables in the finals. Yes, with some controversy. It would be interesting to see how a Snyder would do against Cael, or an Ed Ruth when Cael was still at 184. It seems like the superstars are more able to have a slip up at least once, each year. Logan losing to Dardanes, almost losing to brother Nick, Dake losing in the conf finals.

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Cael was beaten in college.

 

Isn't it great how in college wrestling the same match can be an official match which counts for qualification to the NCAA tournament for one of the athletes in the match and doesn't count as an official match for the other athlete in the match?

 

It is especially great how athletes can wait until the end of the year to decide if they want their reason to actually count on their record or if they want to wipe it clean and start over the next year without any of their losses counting against them...

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Cael was beaten in college.

 

Isn't it great how in college wrestling the same match can be an official match which counts for qualification to the NCAA tournament for one of the athletes in the match and doesn't count as an official match for the other athlete in the match?

 

It is especially great how athletes can wait until the end of the year to decide if they want their reason to actually count on their record or if they want to wipe it clean and start over the next year without any of their losses counting against them...

 

Did the redshirt rule go out for a pack of reds when you were 5 and never come back?

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After getting my issues with college wrestling's quirks off my chest...

 

I am not sure of many (if any) that would have beat Cael late in his college career. His losses would have likely come in his first few years (as it did to Jenn).

 

This of course, is always the age old debate. Do you judge the best by their career or how great they were at a moment in their career.

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not sure Sanderson would have lost to Jenn if he was not in RS. all speculative of course, fact is he did , but I wonder if he in was regular line-up if his focus would have been better, more specific training for opponents, etc. Under this scenario though I have my doubts as to whether he would have been able to beat that year's champ Mitch Clark.   

Edited by KTG119

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Cael was beaten in college.

 

Isn't it great how in college wrestling the same match can be an official match which counts for qualification to the NCAA tournament for one of the athletes in the match and doesn't count as an official match for the other athlete in the match?

 

It is especially great how athletes can wait until the end of the year to decide if they want their reason to actually count on their record or if they want to wipe it clean and start over the next year without any of their losses counting against them...

How do they get to wait until the end of the season? Unless you get injured if you wrestle in a dual no redshirt. Why would someone only wrestle in open tournaments all year and not redshirt and waist a year of eligibility. Not sure if you actually grasp how a redshirt works.   

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How do they get to wait until the end of the season? Unless you get injured if you wrestle in a dual no redshirt. Why would someone only wrestle in open tournaments all year and not redshirt and waist a year of eligibility. Not sure if you actually grasp how a redshirt works.

I understand how redshirts work. Many athletes are in redshirt until they have proven that they can score points at nationals, then they are pulled late in their redshirt season to help the team. If the coach doesn't think they will score a lot of points, or if the team isn't in contention for any hardware, the athlete will remain in redshirt.

 

Duals are nothing other than a collection of ten matches. Duals have no impact on qualification to the NCAA tournament. A team can go 0-10 in duals and win the National title. You can even win the national title with five athletes.

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not sure Sanderson would have lost to Jenn if he was not in RS. all speculative of course, fact is he did , but I wonder if he in was regular line-up if his focus would have been better, more specific training for opponents, etc. Under this scenario though I have my doubts as to whether he would have been able to beat that year's champ Mitch Clark.

It is possible that he would have beat Jenn if he thought that the season would have actually counted. I suppose we missed out on seeing how great Cael was as a true freshmen due to his redshirting allowing him to not have to focus.

 

Of course, it is also possible he would have lost more since he would have faced many more starters and top level athletes throughout his first year and earlier in the season.

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I understand how redshirts work. Many athletes are in redshirt until they have proven that they can score points at nationals, then they are pulled late in their redshirt season to help the team. If the coach doesn't think they will score a lot of points, or if the team isn't in contention for any hardware, the athlete will remain in redshirt.

 

Duals are nothing other than a collection of ten matches. Duals have no impact on qualification to the NCAA tournament. A team can go 0-10 in duals and win the National title. You can even win the national title with five athletes.

Have to have 8 scorers, we learned that last year!

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Many athletes are in redshirt until they have proven that they can score points at nationals, then they are pulled late in their redshirt season to help the team. If the coach doesn't think they will score a lot of points, or if the team isn't in contention for any hardware, the athlete will remain in redshirt.

 

 

How often does the above described scenario actually occur?  

 

Off the top of my head, I can only recall Mark Hall from this past season.  But my memory ain't what it used to be. Ha!  

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How often does the above described scenario actually occur?

 

Off the top of my head, I can only recall Mark Hall from this past season. But my memory ain't what it used to be. Ha!

Myles Martin is another that comes to mind. I think he was pulled a bit earlier than hall though. Coleman Scott I think had his rs pulled right before the post season

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How often does the above described scenario actually occur?  

 

Off the top of my head, I can only recall Mark Hall from this past season.  But my memory ain't what it used to be. Ha!  

Lincoln Mac for sure and I think Joe Williams and Jeff McGiness as well. 

Edited by KTG119

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Myles Martin is another that comes to mind. I think he was pulled a bit earlier than hall though. Coleman Scott I think had his rs pulled right before the post season

Kyle Snyder did as well

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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2 things about this 1999-2000 match where Sanderson beats Jenn. The setup to the reversal (video cued to start there), and the DQ at the end. Would be great if refs called it like this today.

 

https://youtu.be/MROndo7Nc1M?t=3m49s

I didn't see a DQ. I did see a red a$$ beat down, a Teraoesque punch and a PD non-call that the ref should be ashamed of.

Edited by Plasmodium

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Cael is the greatest college wrestler ever.  Several of his opponents went on to win world level medals in freestyle and greco (just off the top of my head - Cormier, Vering, Ruiz, Eggum - may be missing some).  And he trashed all of them.  His complete record used to be posted on his website, but I don't see it anymore.  Pity.  It was incredible. 

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Cael is the greatest college wrestler ever.  Several of his opponents went on to win world level medals in freestyle and greco (just off the top of my head - Cormier, Vering, Ruiz, Eggum - may be missing some).  And he trashed all of them.  His complete record used to be posted on his website, but I don't see it anymore.  Pity.  It was incredible. 

 

If I remember he had some close ones with Cormier, so I'm not sure "trashed" is really fair to DC.  But still, the general point still stands.  Cael is the GOAT folkstyler.

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