Does Gilman have a shot??

[nyum 235]

Have they coached many light weights to world medals? (Not being a jerk just can't think of one)

 

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Ever hear of Henry Cejudo?

 

Also, has any coaching staff coached "many" lightweight/middleweight/heavyweight wrestlers to world medals?

 

 

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[spladle08 739]

Ever hear of Henry Cejudo?

 

Also, has any coaching staff coached "many" lightweight/middleweight/heavyweight wrestlers to world medals?

 

 

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1.) Had no idea Cejudo was out of the Hawkeye wrestling club

2.) I forgot he decided against focusing on freestyle and took the NCAA route and came out a champion with no previous mens level international experience ;)

 

It was only 9 years ago my mind is blurry

 

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[spladle08 739]

All y'all are so "confrontational" that you don't even realize that you're agreeing with each other. Chill people...

 

There's no America bashing on this thread that I've seen, just a dose of "realism".

 

Of course there's a chance. Everyone has a "chance", but to Spladle's point about the "big 3", they have brought something or are made of something that has provided separation. Another way to look at this:

 

a.) Snyder: At this point, no one, not even the 2nd best in the USA, is within a Tech from him (a la Gadsen). This is separation.

 

b.) Burroughs: Even in his "crotchety old age" no one except for Dake is "close" to him, and Dake has International achievements that point to the fact that he also should be rated Top 20 in the world, if not Top 10.

 

c.) Cox: His athleticism and unparalleled sweat glands have propelled him across many mats to victory. His closest competition domestically is Taylor, who... yes... has now MUCH more than a Grand Prix title to his name (a la World Cup).

 

For the "big 3", their chances are definitively greater than someone like Gilman, who is coming in relatively fresh and "inexperienced". Now... any of those big 3 could have a bad day, get a bad draw, etc. etc. etc., and each walk away empty-handed. It's just that their chances are perceivably better than a Gillman, Zain or Gwiz.

I missed this post earlier solid clarification. Hope it made sense to those who seem unfamiliar with the difficulty of international wrestling.

 

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[nyum 235]

Have they coached many light weights to world medals? (Not being a jerk just can't think of one)

 

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1.) Had no idea Cejudo was out of the Hawkeye wrestling club

2.) I forgot he decided against focusing on freestyle and took the NCAA route and came out a champion with no previous mens level international experience ;)

 

It was only 9 years ago my mind is blurry

 

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Ahh yeah I didn't see any mention of the HWC in your question either?? Weird. But yeah Terry was his coach back then.

 

Nice try at being clever, but your second point has no relevance to the question I provided an answer to. ;)

 

 

 

 

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[spladle08 739]

Ahh yeah I didn't see any mention of the HWC in your question either?? Weird. But yeah Terry was his coach back then.

 

Nice try at being clever, but your second point has no relevance to the question I provided an answer to. ;)

 

 

 

 

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Im drinking too much for UFC214 to deal with this. I think the initial stance was Gillman has the best coaches in america so factor that in... to which i asked have they coached world medalists? You bring in Cejudo, who bipassed college to live at the training center, was a junior world silver medalist I think, then was the senior world team rep the next year with a DNP, finally... reached his Olympic team goals, and through the most improbable path ever wins the gold.... You bring in that to say Terry was the National team coach so is somehow responsible for that unlikely run by a kid who did everything in his power to get great at freestyle, that is why Gillman has a good shot?....... jesus...... enjoy the fights #GoDC

 

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Edited July 29, 2017 by spladle08

[CA_Wrestler 239]

1.) Had no idea Cejudo was out of the Hawkeye wrestling club

2.) I forgot he decided against focusing on freestyle and took the NCAA route and came out a champion with no previous mens level international experience ;)

 

It was only 9 years ago my mind is blurry

 

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lol....

 

 

nyum,

 

 

Cejudo was at the OTC when Terry was the coach there.   Cejudo was only HWC when he tried to come back, trained in Iowa city for a bit, but Terry said that he wasn't committed enough(endorsements, guest speaking, etc)

[nyum 235]

lol....

 

 

nyum,

 

 

Cejudo was at the OTC when Terry was the coach there.   Cejudo was only HWC when he tried to come back, trained in Iowa city for a bit, but Terry said that he wasn't committed enough(endorsements, guest speaking, etc)

 

Yeah I know, from the time Henry was 16-17 up until his Olympic Gold Terry was his primary coach. When Spladle08 asks for examples of wrestlers that were coached by those guys, I gave him one. I guess the question must have been rhetorical...

[spladle08 739]

Yeah I know, from the time Henry was 16-17 up until his Olympic Gold Terry was his primary coach. When Spladle08 asks for examples of wrestlers that were coached by those guys, I gave him one. I guess the question must have been rhetorical...

Youre dead on, I see the light Gillman wins gold the next 4 years.

 

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[nyum 235]

Im drinking too much for UFC214 to deal with this. I think the initial stance was Gillman has the best coaches in america so factor that in... to which i asked have they coached world medalists? You bring in Cejudo, who bipassed college to live at the training center, was a junior world silver medalist I think, then was the senior world team rep the next year with a DNP, finally... reached his Olympic team goals, and through the most improbable path ever wins the gold.... You bring in that to say Terry was the National team coach so is somehow responsible for that unlikely run by a kid who did everything in his power to get great at freestyle, that is why Gillman has a good shot?....... jesus...... enjoy the fights #GoDC

 

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Dude, I wasn't trying to jump in on either side of an argument. But, you're right Cejudo bypassed college to train with Terry Brands full time. Terry then coached him to a junior world silver medal where he fell to Besik Kudukov (sp?).  The fact that he went through "the most improbable path ever" in order to win the gold while being coached Terry only strengthens the argument that Terry is a good coach.  

 

With that said, go reread my posts and tell me where I mentioned Gilman.  Because I didn't.  I didn't think he'd win the trials and he'll be lucky to medal.  

[spladle08 739]

Dude, I wasn't trying to jump in on either side of an argument. But, you're right Cejudo bypassed college to train with Terry Brands full time. Terry then coached him to a junior world silver medal where he fell to Besik Kudukov (sp?). The fact that he went through "the most improbable path ever" in order to win the gold while being coached Terry only strengthens the argument that Terry is a good coach.

 

With that said, go reread my posts and tell me where I mentioned Gilman. Because I didn't. I didn't think he'd win the trials and he'll be lucky to medal.

Well then. Guess you just got caught in a crossfire. So i do applogize

 

Im bowing out of this thread but anytjing above 10% for Gillman and Wiz in their first World Championships is too high

 

Train retherford/Logie Bear come in next somewhere around 25-30% to medal

(See any previous thread that talks about worlds to read my doubts surrounding the Steiber in that gauntlet weight)

 

Green/Cox feel like 50-60%

 

Snyder/Burroughs 75%+

 

Again, prelims UFC214 starting, pay respect to our former champions ;)

 

 

 

 

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[nyum 235]

Well then. Guess you just got caught in a crossfire. So i do applogize

 

Im bowing out of this thread but anytjing above 10% for Gillman and Wiz in their first World Championships is too high

 

Train retherford/Logie Bear come in next somewhere around 25-30% to medal

(See any previous thread that talks about worlds to read my doubts surrounding the Steiber in that gauntlet weight)

 

Green/Cox feel like 50-60%

 

Snyder/Burroughs 75%+

 

Again, prelims UFC214 starting, pay respect to our former champions ;)

 

 

 

 

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Same to you, I reread my first post and I do think it probably came across as condescending.  My bad.  Those percentages seem pretty spot on. And lets go Cormier!

[Peso 331]

If memory serves me correct, Coach Z just came out of nowhere and shocked the world!  I'll bet he has a few war stories to have these rookies at a good place.  Meanwhile, we are one of the contenders at Jr World the next few days.  We are just getting better.  That's why I believe we can expect something surprising out of our rookie class. More than likely one of our studs will have a bad draw, or a bad match, or yada, yada, but these are full grown men, who will be competitive or better at virtually every single bout that our country wrestles.  Can you win the World Championship with 5 medals?

[TheRealOne9050 267]

Dude, I wasn't trying to jump in on either side of an argument. But, you're right Cejudo bypassed college to train with Terry Brands full time. Terry then coached him to a junior world silver medal where he fell to Besik Kudukov (sp?).  The fact that he went through "the most improbable path ever" in order to win the gold while being coached Terry only strengthens the argument that Terry is a good coach.  

 

With that said, go reread my posts and tell me where I mentioned Gilman.  Because I didn't.  I didn't think he'd win the trials and he'll be lucky to medal.  

 

I believe it was Otarsultanov.

[steen-hooph 60]

Is Gilman not at the World Team Camp? Didn't see him in any of the photos.

[spladle08 739]

Is Gilman not at the World Team Camp? Didn't see him in any of the photos.

He's been in a few videos I've come across (at least i thought) practicing with the team. Im sure any news of him not participating would come out so the next man up would have time to prepare... man I'm excited for the next month if wrestling

 

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[sgallan 592]

Yeah I know, from the time Henry was 16-17 up until his Olympic Gold Terry was his primary coach. When Spladle08 asks for examples of wrestlers that were coached by those guys, I gave him one. I guess the question must have been rhetorical...

 

As far as technique S. Belaglozov (if memory serves he was pretty tough back in the day) had the most influence on Cejudo. Cejudo went to the OTC in 2004, still very light in weight, helped and worked out a lot with the women. That is where Belaglosov (then working with US women)  started working with Cejudo. Belaglazov then went to Sunkist in Tempe and was still a big part of his  training. Brands got him after that and did a great job of getting a still rather immature kid good to go for the Olympics. 

[nom 862]

A gut reaction --- nothing with a ton of detail to back this up ......   When I've watched the best in the world at this weight class, I've been floored by their speed and technique.  So damn fast and slick.   They also seem to have a high degree of explosiveness / pop.   No American wrestler in recent years at this weight class have struck me with the same awww.  Gilman is no exception to this.  I hope he surprises and maybe he will.  I won't count him out.

[nyum 235]

As far as technique S. Belaglozov (if memory serves he was pretty tough back in the day) had the most influence on Cejudo. Cejudo went to the OTC in 2004, still very light in weight, helped and worked out a lot with the women. That is where Belaglosov (then working with US women)  started working with Cejudo. Belaglazov then went to Sunkist in Tempe and was still a big part of his  training. Brands got him after that and did a great job of getting a still rather immature kid good to go for the Olympics. 

 

I didn't realize Sergei had been so influential. That's pretty cool though. It's too bad that we couldn't keep Sergei in Tempe a while longer. However, I was fortunate enough to learn from him at a few different Sunkist Camps. 

[sgallan 592]

I didn't realize Sergei had been so influential. That's pretty cool though. It's too bad that we couldn't keep Sergei in Tempe a while longer. However, I was fortunate enough to learn from him at a few different Sunkist Camps. 

 

He seems to move on about every 3-4 years. As hyper as he is that makes sense. He is every bit the match in intensity as are the Brands. Had his hip replaced, the other one needed to be replaced, and would still have live goes with some of the ASU guys. Cracked me up when he'd show a gut during live goes at camp..... you always knew because you'd hear a kid squeal. 

[nyum 235]

He seems to move on about every 3-4 years. As hyper as he is that makes sense. He is every bit the match in intensity as are the Brands. Had his hip replaced, the other one needed to be replaced, and would still have live goes with some of the ASU guys. Cracked me up when he'd show a gut during live goes at camp..... you always knew because you'd hear a kid squeal.

Agreed. He showed my brother and me a mean leg Turk.

 

 

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[2td3nf 537]

Does Gilman have a shot? He's not one of the favorites but it's sports and anything can happen. This weight class is loaded and wide open where probably 10 or more guys can win it on any given day. Should be a very exciting bracket in Paris.

 

For fun and not necessarily indicative what's to come, here are some numbers and stats from 57kg at Euros, Asians, Pan Ams and Gilman's Trials.

 

Euros:

 

Gold    Edisherash (AZE)  34 points scored in 4 matches = 8.5 pts per match

Silver   Dukov (ROU)        24 in 4 = 6.0

Bronze Uguev (RUS)        10 in 2 = 5.0, and 2 Falls

Bronze Atli (TUR)              33 in 4 = 8.3

 

 

Asians:

 

Gold    Takahashi (JPN)     34 in 4 = 8.5

Silver   Zandanbud (MGL)  37 in 4 = 9.3

Bronze Atri (IRI)                  15 in 3 = 5.0, and 1 Fall

Bronze Sanayev (KAZ)        20 in 4 = 5.0

 

 

Pan Ams:

 

Gold    Graff (USA)            30 in 3 = 10.0, and 1 Fall

Silver   Palani (CAN)         42 in 4 = 10.5

Bronze Ortega (CUB)        37 in 3 = 12.5

Bronze Munoz (COL)         7 in 2 = 3.5, with 1 Bye and 1 FFT 

 

 

USA World Team Trials:

 

Gold    Gilman                    38 in 6 = 6.3

 

Gilman dec Cruz 9-0

Gilman dec Graff 1-1

Gilman dec Megaludis 11-0

Gilman dec Tomasello 6-2

Gilman dec Ramos 4-3

Gilman dec Ramos 7-2

[de4856 360]

I have to agree with Nom, and other posters about 57, having a number of wrestlers who have amazing speed, tenacity, and technique. And when you think about it like that, and watch how Gilman performed at the Spanish Grand Prix, it kind of makes you think Gilman's chances aren't that good. But remember Ramos was able to win a couple of matches at 2015, so given the right draw, I think Gilman is just as capable. And I realize that winning a couple of matches and medaling are two different things. However, my hope is that Gilman can close the gap and surprise us all.

[hammerlockthree 2,043]

If your confidence is still high however I'd give you 4:1 up to $500 he doesnt win

Edit* i still hope he medals so took off the medal to medal .wager

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PMing you

[wrestlingphish 645]

And when you think about it like that, and watch how Gilman performed at the Spanish Grand Prix, it kind of makes you think Gilman's chances aren't that good.

Are these matches posted anywhere?

[maligned 455]

I know it's been hinted at, but to put it in concrete terms: In the last 10 years of competition at the 3 bottom weights, we've gotten exactly 3 medals. To put the situation further into perspective, about a year ago, I used a Vegas-style algorithm to rank each nation's performance by weight class over the 2014-16 seasons. Our weakest weight was clearly 57kg where we were ranked #18 in the world. 

 

Especially at 57, you have to have athleticism, which we haven't had recently. The top 10 performing nations at 57kg the last 3 worlds/olympics is made up strictly of the best wrestling nations (Russia, Iran, Azerbaijan, Georgia), Asian nations with documented smaller stature men whose type of athlete fits the weight better (Japan, North Korea, India, Mongolia...none of these nations have success at larger weights), plus 2 insane athletes in Bonne of Cuba and Diatta of Senegal. Other documented taller wrestling nations like us, such as Ukraine and Turkey, also struggle to find high-level athletes at the lower weights and have had very poor performances at this weight.

Edited August 23, 2017 by maligned