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High School Numbers Down AGAIN

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I will be provocative-

1) if you said in response to a suggestion-"none of those guys will be serious D1 wrestlers so don't waste your time trying to recruit them"- you are a moron- 99% of HS wrestlers won't be serious D1 wrestlers UNLESS HS wrestling decays down to a few thousand kids. The sport of wrestling will live & die by the kids WHO NEVER wrestle in college. We need their numbers to increase so we have a viable sport. Furthermore, all you great coaches don't really know which kid, who at 14 doesn't seem committed to the sport, will blow up and become a serious wrestler. Look at the Dutch-who realized years ago their soccer model was wrong & changed to encourage participation at the junior levels rarther than concentrate on the "elite" 14 year old-many who quit, burned out etc. Instead they encouraged a broader group of kids at the junior level so the senior level numbers would grow. I could name a number of highly rated HS wrestlers who never did anything in college or beyond-to concentrate solely on highly rated 15 year olds is a waste-cast a wider net & wait to see who flourishes. Because of that the Dutch-altho a small country have remained competitive in soccer. Michael Jordan, for God sakes, was cut by his HS varsity coach as a sophomore- luckily he didn't quit-which most kids will do when cut.

2) if you don't think cauliflower ear is a problem than you are a lonely, single, man.

3)HS football is a big problem- the average HS football coach wants his kids FAT and opposes any attempt to get them in serious shape. I have fat tested 290 lb kids who qualified at 189 but the coach didn't want the kid to cut to 260lbs as we did to improve his speed. The same coach preferred a fat 5' 7" 220 butterball to a chiseled 170 lb kid (which he became thru wrestling) b/c he wanted a crappy nose guard more than a good linebacker. At most High Schools the football coach controls the budget & calls the shots. The good news is HS football is going to die d/t the brain injury problem. Furthermore, the HS football mentality that encourages obesity is bad for the KIDS-it isn't like we have an epidemic of skinny, fit kids. We need to exploit their demise to encourage kids who seek a contact sport to try wrestling. Many young men seek to challenge themselves in a combat sport & with football becoming too dangerous we need to push wrestling as the alternative-whom among you hasn't had a young man let you know (not in so many words) that they were proud to test & measure themselves thru the rigors of wrestling? i have heard many kids state that football was a joke compared to wrestling-even tho football was their 1st HS sport.  We need to fight against specialization for most kids & encourage them to try several sports-and the death of football will give us a greater chance to do so.

Edited by wresNdad

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I will be provocative-

1) if you said in response to a suggestion-"none of those guys will be serious D1 wrestlers so don't waste your time trying to recruit them"- you are a moron- 99% of HS wrestlers won't be serious D1 wrestlers UNLESS HS wrestling decays down to a few thousand kids. The sport of wrestling will live & die by the kids WHO NEVER wrestle in college. We need their numbers to increase so we have a viable sport. Furthermore, all you great coaches don't really know which kid, who at 14 doesn't seem committed to the sport, will blow up and become a serious wrestler. Look at the Dutch-who realized years ago their soccer model was wrong & changed to encourage participation at the junior levels farther than concentrate on the "elite" 14 year old-many who quit, burned out etc. Instead they encouraged a broader group of kids at the junior level so the senior level numbers would grow. I could name a number of highly rated HS wrestlers who never did anything in college or beyond-to concentrate solely on highly rated 15 year olds is a waste-cast a wider net & wait to see who flourishes. Because of that the Dutch-altho a small country have remained competitive in soccer. Michael Jordan, for God sakes, was cut by his HS varsity coach as a sophomore- luckily he didn't quit-which most kids cut do.

2) if you don't think cauliflower ear is problem than you are a lonely, single, man.

3)HS football is big problem- the average HS football coach wants his kids FAT and opposes any attempt to get them in serious shape. I have fat tested 290 lb kids who qualified at 189 but the coach didn't want the kid to cut to 260lbs as we did to improve his speed. The same coach preferred a fat 5' 7" 220 butterball to a chiseled 170 lb kid (which he became thru wrestling) b/c he wanted a crappy nose guard more than a good linebacker. At most High Schools the football coach controls the budget & calls the shots. The good news is HS football is going to die d/t the brain injury problem. Furthermore, the HS football mentality that encourages obesity is bad for the KIDS-it isn't like we have an epidemic of skinny, fit kids. We need to exploit their demise to encourage kids who seek a contact sport to try wrestling. Many young men seek to challenge themselves in a combat sport & with football becoming too dangerous we need to push wrestling as the alternative-whom among you hasn't had a young man let you know (not in so many words) that they were proud to test & measure themselves thru the rigors of wrestling? i have heard many kids state that football was a joke compared to wrestling-even tho football was their 1st HS sport. We need to fight against specialization for most kids & encourage them to try several sports-and the death of football will give us a greater chance to do so.

You make a good point about football losing popularity. It's just a matter of time. The NFL will be a shell of itself in 10-15 years. Parents will look for other avenues, and that is already starting. In my area, Lacrosse has taken a big chunk of kids. Wrestling needs to find a way to fill that void.

 

In 2010 my HS (were my kids go) had 40 + kids on the team. In 2016, they had 11 kids, in a school with over 1700 kids. Coach was a D1 national champ. A big part of the success from 2006-2010 was that the head Asst coach worked in the school. He'd harass kids, talk to other coaches and make sure kids showed up.

 

Wrestling coaches that also teach is critical to success. This is why Pa is so strong. Clarion, Edinboro etc... produce teachers and these guys go back into the schools and coach. The clubs will always get the elite kids, but that is not what keeps the sport going long term. We need lots of kids who will only win 50% of their matches! That only happens when you have committed teachers/coaches who can corral kids.

 

I worry for the long term prospect of this sport. We will get better (internationally), yet the sport will no longer be what we knew. To some, the success will be worth it. To most, we will long for the good old days.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I will be provocative-

1) if you said in response to a suggestion-"none of those guys will be serious D1 wrestlers so don't waste your time trying to recruit them"- you are a moron- 99% of HS wrestlers won't be serious D1 wrestlers UNLESS HS wrestling decays down to a few thousand kids. The sport of wrestling will live & die by the kids WHO NEVER wrestle in college. We need their numbers to increase so we have a viable sport. Furthermore, all you great coaches don't really know which kid, who at 14 doesn't seem committed to the sport, will blow up and become a serious wrestler. Look at the Dutch-who realized years ago their soccer model was wrong & changed to encourage participation at the junior levels farther than concentrate on the "elite" 14 year old-many who quit, burned out etc. Instead they encouraged a broader group of kids at the junior level so the senior level numbers would grow. I could name a number of highly rated HS wrestlers who never did anything in college or beyond-to concentrate solely on highly rated 15 year olds is a waste-cast a wider net & wait to see who flourishes. Because of that the Dutch-altho a small country have remained competitive in soccer. Michael Jordan, for God sakes, was cut by his HS varsity coach as a sophomore- luckily he didn't quit-which most kids cut do.

2) if you don't think cauliflower ear is problem than you are a lonely, single, man.

3)HS football is big problem- the average HS football coach wants his kids FAT and opposes any attempt to get them in serious shape. I have fat tested 290 lb kids who qualified at 189 but the coach didn't want the kid to cut to 260lbs as we did to improve his speed. The same coach preferred a fat 5' 7" 220 butterball to a chiseled 170 lb kid (which he became thru wrestling) b/c he wanted a crappy nose guard more than a good linebacker. At most High Schools the football coach controls the budget & calls the shots. The good news is HS football is going to die d/t the brain injury problem. Furthermore, the HS football mentality that encourages obesity is bad for the KIDS-it isn't like we have an epidemic of skinny, fit kids. We need to exploit their demise to encourage kids who seek a contact sport to try wrestling. Many young men seek to challenge themselves in a combat sport & with football becoming too dangerous we need to push wrestling as the alternative-whom among you hasn't had a young man let you know (not in so many words) that they were proud to test & measure themselves thru the rigors of wrestling? i have heard many kids state that football was a joke compared to wrestling-even tho football was their 1st HS sport.  We need to fight against specialization for most kids & encourage them to try several sports-and the death of football will give us a greater chance to do so.

 

Great post. A lot of the "average" kids are not going out for football anymore because of potential brain damage. The fanatical moms and dads still have no issues. The football landscape is definitely changing and it will be interesting to see where this takes both the NFL and high school over the next twenty years. Initially, it would seem like this would result in more kids going to wrestling, but it seems like it is what is really driving the growth of lacrosse. 

 

Also, for all of the fear people have about wrestling making a kid lose weight, football's issue with making kids fat is an even bigger problem. There is no reason why a six foot tall high school kid should weigh anywhere near 300lbs. and yet it is encouraged year after year. While it is not uncommon to see a linemen lose weight after their playing career is over, most stay fat and have health issues for the rest of their lives. I can't think of any examples of grown men still battling the effects of cutting weight in high school for wrestling. Most of us end up chubby anyways. 

 

Strongly agree with your first point as well. This is something that needs to be reiterated. For wrestling to grow, it has to be accessible to the masses, not just the fanatics. You need opportunities for both "recreational" wrestlers at the youth level as well as "comp" wrestlers. Where I am at, there is no parity or depth at the elementary and youth level because most involved push their kids year round. When a new kid comes out, they get hammered, while at the same time the majority of kids that go year round from 6 years old to high school get burnt out around 7th grade. It's a lose lose. I think more "novice" tournaments would help solve this problem.

Edited by superbowlhomeboy

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The good news is HS football is going to die d/t the brain injury problem.

 

Though I agree with most of the post, I don't see that as good news in any case.

 

If football dies,  it's not going to die because of the injury situation.  Its going to die because of the social justice warrior war on football, abetted by the journalist community.  That group disdains any combative sport.   If they get football, wrestling won't be far behind.  Hockey and lacrosse will be in their sights too.  

 

They're part of a group of people who want to decide everything for everyone, so that nothing can occur without their permission, or  license.  They are quite strong, relentless, and have powerful allies in journalism and media. 

 

One of my favorite quotes about (pro) football, from Bill Parcells (apparently borrowed from Eugene McCarthy) , applies equally to wrestling.  He said "The problem with football is you have to be smart enough to understand it, and dumb enough to think its important."   In other words, it has to have intrinsic value in your eyes.

 

If you don't think that wrestling "makes you somebody", you'll never put up with the grind that it is.  I'm not sure we've found the approach to combat the idea that being a wrestler makes you someone that you don't (or shouldn't)  want to be.  Good coaches at all levels are the best answer to this, I suppose.  I'm not sure what else is.   At a minimum, it would be good if the combative sports weren't at war with each other. 

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Though I agree with most of the post, I don't see that as good news in any case.

 

If football dies,  it's not going to die because of the injury situation.  Its going to die because of the social justice warrior war on football, abetted by the journalist community.  That group disdains any combative sport.   If they get football, wrestling won't be far behind.  Hockey and lacrosse will be in their sights too.  

 

They're part of a group of people who want to decide everything for everyone, so that nothing can occur without their permission, or  license.  They are quite strong, relentless, and have powerful allies in journalism and media. 

 

One of my favorite quotes about (pro) football, from Bill Parcells (apparently borrowed from Eugene McCarthy) , applies equally to wrestling.  He said "The problem with football is you have to be smart enough to understand it, and dumb enough to think its important."   In other words, it has to have intrinsic value in your eyes.

 

If you don't think that wrestling "makes you somebody", you'll never put up with the grind that it is.  I'm not sure we've found the approach to combat the idea that being a wrestler makes you someone that you don't (or shouldn't)  want to be.  Good coaches at all levels are the best answer to this, I suppose.  I'm not sure what else is.   At a minimum, it would be good if the combative sports weren't at war with each other.

 

Yes, yes, yes!

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My kids play football and wrestling. They are still building amazing football facilities for new high schools. Wrestling can not take the place of football or be a #1 sport, it just can't. Don't believe the media about football's demise. The numbers are down in pop warner yes because of the injury hysteria but the football programs in HS through the NFL are not being cut. It is far and away the biggest $ maker and in some schools football makes more money than all the other sports combined!

Edited by PRyan2012

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HS football will suffer b/c the parents that pay attention to the neurological studies are also the better healed & politically active parents. When they steer junior way from football they will look at the sports budget & demand the money be more "equitably" spread. That is when football will come screaming down- more money will go to lax & soccer-and wrestling if we step up. Many of these same parents are very active in the booster club & will began to steer $ to the other sports.

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