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MA_Wrestler

Day 2 Greco

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Hoping for a better day for the US tomorrow, so lets get the conversation going and hopefully some of you early risers will post updates tomorrow morning.

 

Pretty much figured coming in if we are going to win a medal or medals, day 2 would be the day. We have our most experienced and in my opinion most likely to medal guys hitting the mats. I dont think there's an American in any style I want to see win a medal more than Robbie Smith. That long, passionate interview he gave before world's in 2015, then his epic match for bronze with Mahkov that year, I mean how could you not be a fan. Robbie also isnt your traditional boring greco heavyweight, he gets after it and puts up some big throws. He's fallen short in the bronze bout twice now, he's the elder statesmen of the Greco team, and hes the torch bearer for our traditonally stongest greco weight, from Ghaffari to Rulon to Byers and now for the 5th straight year Robbie. He just needs the medals now.

 

With no Lopez in the bracket, Kaayalp is the heavy favorite. The Turk really never loses to anyone other than Lopez for almost a decade now. Other than him tho, I dont see anyone as unbeatable. Semenov from Russia and the Azerbijian (name escapes me) won bronze last year. Robbie took down Azerbijian but then couldnt stop the gut wrench. He'll have his work cut out for him against either of those two as well as a handful of others, but I believe if he is at his best he can beat anyone in the bracket, maybe with the exception of Kayaalp.

 

Hafizov made 3 world teams and an Olympic team before coming to the US. I have to believe that much international training and experience is going to make him a legit threat here. Listening to a preview of greco it sounds like 59 is pretty wide open, with most of the recent medalists and champs either up a weight or not competing. I think Hafizov is our 2nd best if not best shot at a medal.

 

Ellis Coleman is another one I'm excited about. A two time junior medalist, made the Olympics at age 20, followed up by making the world team in 2013, and hasnt been back on a team since. He switched weights a bit, I think had some injury issues, but seems settled in and ready to go now. I've had high hopes for him for a while, love his style and ability and hopefully he starts to make good on all his potnetial starting tomorrow.

 

Dont know much about Haight's weight class or medal chances. I know this is his 2nd or 3rd team, so here's rooting for him too.

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Looking at the brackets, I love Smith's draw. Opposite side from Kayaalp, no Semenov for Russia, I think a pretty clear path to the semis and the finals lloks within his reach. I hope he really comes out on fire like he can, love his chances to be a finalist.

 

Haight has the toughest draw with the Hungariar first, I believe he is a past medalist and their team has been wrestling great. Same quarter bracket with Madsen, with Vlasov waiting on the bottom quarter. Will probably have to get by Hungary and Madsen to have shot to be pulled back in, unless Vlasov gets upset again.

 

I think Hafizov and Coleman have decent draws too. I dont know a lot about everyone in their fields, but they dont hit the major power countries or any big names in the first couple rounds at least. No easy draws at worlds but there's look ok. Nothing left but to do it now!

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Robbie has too many obstacles unfortunately.The semis are within reach but after that it is Heiki Nabi.

On the other side, a complacent smug Kayaalp is due for an upset. 

Look at when I wrote this and look at what will happen. He will be upset by Balint Lam!

Make note of what a genius I am. Turkey is the old country so that would not make me happy at all....

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Hazifov, ran into a guy who was just a better thrower, not much to really say.

Coleman, ran into a guy he couldn't score on.

Haight, ran into a guy would he couldn't contain.

Smith ran into a guy he couldn't physically dominate.

 

Right now if I was coach Lindland, I would be making plans for several extended overseas training camps. I would take the core guys and as many up and comers as possible. Something needs to occur to get us to the next level.

 

I will say that this Greco tourney was really really tough. I saw many of the favorites and former champs/medalists beaten, so I am sure there are other coaches other than Coach Lindland that are out there scratching their head right now.

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Its amazing how uncompetitive we are in greco. Feel like every year we get on here and talk about how the program is heading in the right direction... a year later, same ole ish....

 

Is it lack of domestic competition, too late to the game (folkstyle and freestyle dominate youth) or is it lack of senior level training?

 

Not trying to imply we should be winning medals every year but it'd be nice to have 1 or 2 guys you'd give a 50/50 shot at reaching the podium.

 

Onto freestyle and the yearly education if people migrating in from the college board to realize world level dominance vs the college-hammer, are 2 different things

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

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Definitely a disappointing day. While it is true several champs/medalists got upset, I think that happens every year. Greco lends itself to more parity, medals are won by a lot of countries you almost never see win a medal in freestyle. The style and rules of greco effect that, as well as greco being more popular in many regions. All that said, still a disappointing result, we didnt even come close to reaching a medal match.

 

We seem to be on a downward trend with our Greco program. After amazing heights in '06 and '07, followed by 1 medal each year in '08 and '09, this decade has been brutal. This is back to back years without a medal or reaching a medal match, and from '10-13 we had a 4 year stretch without a medal. Back to back bronze for Bisek in '14 and '15, Mango and Smith reached the bronze match twice each, and other than that, nothing. Two straight Olympics without a medal or even reaching a medal match. Not good.

 

I really felt like Smith had a great draw to at the very least make the semis. I feel like the '15 version of him would have made the finals with this draw. I remember thinking in 2016 both he and Bisek had good draws, Lester in 2012 had a good draw. Maybe as others have mentioned, we are having a problem getting our guys to peak at the right time? I'm not a coach at this level for a reason so I have no answers, but maybe that does have something to do with it?

 

It also seems like our young, promising guys just arent developing into medal threats. Mango makes an Olympic team at 21, is on the team for 8 years and has mostly disappointing results. Coleman made the Olympics at 20, Provisor at 21. Caylor Williams made 3 straight teams at a very young age. Jesse Thielke was a highly ranked, well known high school wrestler and D1 prospect who commited to Greco full time, showed a ton of promise but still yet to become a threat. I am optimistic about a lot of the young talent and potential we have in the pipeline right now, I'm just nervous about being optimistic and hoping these trends dont continue.

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Lindland echoed my original thought--go with the young guys:  "Today I didn't see the fight and I know we have really talented athletes," Lindland said. "I don't know what the answer is to fixing it right now. Maybe it is bringing up the juniors who have wrestled with these rules and let them matriculate into seniors."

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A lot of good guys from across the globe lost, but I think Lindland needs to take a hard look at his periodization and peaking for next year. Our guys looked worn out, IMO.

 

I noticed Robbie said in his interview how tough their camp was and how all wrestlers worked very hard in it. I have no idea when the camp was but maybe it was too close to the start of worlds?

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Lindland echoed my original thought--go with the young guys:  "Today I didn't see the fight and I know we have really talented athletes," Lindland said. "I don't know what the answer is to fixing it right now. Maybe it is bringing up the juniors who have wrestled with these rules and let them matriculate into seniors."[/size]

That's pretty harsh to the seniors who just competed

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I agree with the many others that really wanted to see Robbie win a medal.

 

So yeah, us fans are disappointed, it's pretty obvious Coach Lindland was disappointed, and I'm sure Robbie is disappointed too.

 

Still love Robbie though. :D

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I noticed Robbie said in his interview how tough their camp was and how all wrestlers worked very hard in it. I have no idea when the camp was but maybe it was too close to the start of worlds?

Exactly what I was thinking. Maybe Team USA is doing too much "go go go" training, maybe they're doing it too close to the worlds, maybe they're not doing enough technique? Something is broke. 

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2td3nf, on 22 Aug 2017 - 7:40 PM, said:

Fwiw, the USA Greco team scored 32 points (plus one fall by Robbie) in 13 matches for an average scoring of 2.5 points per match. 

 

Again not that these numbers mean anything, but USA gave up 43 points (and one fall) in those 13 matches for an average of 3.3 per match.

 

These numbers probably mean nothing. Just looking at the average of the scores.

Edited by 2td3nf

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Please someone tell me how Iran with 3 medals (bronze)

has more points than Turkey who have 2 golds and 1 bronze. 

Essentially both have 3 medals. 

It's fing stupid is what I call it. Too, both have 2 5th placers.

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Disappointing for Russia, Iran and Azerbaijan. Turkey did rather well. Germany surprised me.

 

 

 

 

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Gotta prop my Armenian homeboys.  Nation of only 3 million people--Russia has 145 million.  Great results for such a small country.

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