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Buckxell

Israel Martinez working with Jon Bones Jones

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It's pretty well known that Israel helps train Bones Jones. At what point does Izzy cut his affiliation with this guy, who's a repeat offender of ped violations on top of his rap sheet. He's associating with one of the worst possible role models for all of his school age (and younger) wrestlers to look up to.

 

 

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Do people really think all other wrestlers, fighters, boxers are clean and always have been?  wow

 

If you ask people on this board whether our American wrestlers have ever, or do currently, use illegal/prohibited performance enhancing drugs, the answer you will get is a resounding "no."   

 

For any doubters about the prevalence of drugs in all sports, watch the documentary "Bigger, Faster, Stronger."  It's nine years old, but as relevant as ever.  

Edited by Frank_Rizzo

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If you think that high level athletes in any sport are all clean, you may be setting yourself up to be very disappointing.  Wrestling may be one of the better ones because there is not a real "pro" area with big money, but it is still far from clean, from what I have seen, which is very little compared to the many posters on here.

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Do people really think all other wrestlers, fighters, boxers are clean and always have been? wow

I never said that, and I agree with your sentiment... lots of guys using and often it's just a game of getting ahead of the testers. My point is that he runs a youth club and coaches high school. How would he explain to kids and parents who are looking at them as role models his endorsement of that guy? I guess he has to weigh where his bread is buttered the most, but I'd imagine after all of this it would have a negative effect on his youth coaching income. Or maybe parents and kids just don't care... who knows.

 

 

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He can have his cake and eat it too.  He can simply repeat whatever excuses the Jones camp puts out.  Parents won't care and they'll continue to pay.  

Everybody loves a winner.  On this site, people put him on a GOAT list even though it is well established that he is a big time cheater.

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If you ask people on this board whether our American wrestlers have ever, or do currently, use illegal/prohibited performance enhancing drugs, the answer you will get is a resounding "no."

 

For any doubters about the prevalence of drugs in all sports, watch the documentary "Bigger, Faster, Stronger." It's nine years old, but as relevant as ever.

Aka the redshirt year.

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Steroids is rampant in the UFC, so if you want to train UFC fighters, you just have to deal with the fact that some of them will fail tests. Just look at them.  Yoel Romero is about 40 years old.

 

 

I never said that, and I agree with your sentiment... lots of guys using and often it's just a game of getting ahead of the testers. My point is that he runs a youth club and coaches high school. How would he explain to kids and parents who are looking at them as role models his endorsement of that guy? I guess he has to weigh where his bread is buttered the most, but I'd imagine after all of this it would have a negative effect on his youth coaching income. Or maybe parents and kids just don't care... who knows.


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They don't care.  Jones has had drug issues for a long time before this failed test.  It's not as if Izzy is the guy injecting him.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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Sorry...don't mean to take this topic down a path but WOW...this is clearly what is wrong with society...nobody wants to hold others accountable for their actions.  Excuse after excuse.  I could give to rats a$$ who is doping and who isn't...but if you are caught you should be held accountable...period.  No excuses...no, oh well others do it...no, who cares the parents want a winner...all BS!!  The guy is a cheater!  Period!  He should be banned from competing ever again.  And he shouldn't be allowed to teach or coach kids...period!  He made his choices so now he should have to live with them.

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Sorry...don't mean to take this topic down a path but WOW...this is clearly what is wrong with society...nobody wants to hold others accountable for their actions.  Excuse after excuse.  I could give to rats a$$ who is doping and who isn't...but if you are caught you should be held accountable...period.  No excuses...no, oh well others do it...no, who cares the parents want a winner...all BS!!  The guy is a cheater!  Period!  He should be banned from competing ever again.  And he shouldn't be allowed to teach or coach kids...period!  He made his choices so now he should have to live with them.

 

 I would agree completely but then lets do a better job of testing everyone and no loop wholes.  Everyone knows ways around the system.  I just have a hard time being fired up about hammering the ones caught when we don't really even try to catch others.  (maybe he should be penalized for being stupid?)

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Pretty sure a one year suspension for a guy that fights once a year is not being held accountable.

 

jones fought 4 times in 2011 (trying to get a sample before all the issues started).  mcgregor fought 3 times in 15 and 16.

 

most UFC top 5's fight 2-5 times/year

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What is a "clean" athlete?

 

Would failing a drug test because you drank too much coffee make you a "dirty" athlete?

Caffeine used to be on WADA's prohibited substance list until 2004

The WADA Executive Committee approves/disapproves substances and caffeine is being considered again

Coffee drinkers could become "dirty" once again

 

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What is a "clean" athlete?

 

Would failing a drug test because you drank too much coffee make you a "dirty" athlete?

 

Caffeine used to be on WADA's prohibited substance list until 2004

 

The WADA Executive Committee approves/disapproves substances and caffeine is being considered again

 

Coffee drinkers could become "dirty" once again

 

 

For several of the substance, including I believe caffeine, it's the amount in your system extending beyond a "normal" level, not just having trace amounts detected. So having one cup of regular coffee at some point isn't likely to be an issue. However having a coffee cup full of espresso shots just prior to competition could likely throw up a red flag.

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"Others do it too" is a shtty excuse for cheating. Does cheating happen? Yes. Do some cheaters go I caught? Likely. Does that mean those who get caught should somehow be pardoned in our minds or that their transgressions aren't as "bad"? Absolutely not.

Guys have trained their entire lives.

 

They have their emotions, identity and most importantly, their families financial goals aligned with the sport.

 

If they know others are juicing, I can see why somebody, who otherwise wouldn't, moving forward with a few cycles.

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Levels are interesting.   Obviously there is an acceptable level of testosterone and its probably significantly above walk around level for most folks.  I wonder if athletes push the envelope on levels.

They do not test for testosterone levels.  You get tested for testosterone to epitestosterone ratios, and a more expensive test is for exogenous testosterone, which I think the UFC does, but is not done for wrestlers on the national team.

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