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Gilman Maturity and Growth

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This is not what I found and I had to hardly scroll down to find it. When you look up Origin of Jap, it says it was first recorded in 1885-1890. You'll also find under Usage Note: "Dating back to the late 19th century, use of this term was originally neutral. But because the Japanese were the enemy during World War II, the term Jap became derogatory."

 

good find

 

and for the record, this is the 21st century

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After Gilman made his apology I posted that I accepted it and believed him. Furthermore a didn't make a single negative post regarding Gilman afterwards.

 

So who's the clown/idiot here?

 

hmmm.....good question

 

cletus?

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This is not what I found and I had to hardly scroll down to find it. When you look up Origin of Jap, it says it was first recorded in 1885-1890. You'll also find under Usage Note: "Dating back to the late 19th century, use of this term was originally neutral. But because the Japanese were the enemy during World War II, the term Jap became derogatory."

Yes. And we currently do not live in the 19th century. The word is no longer a neutral word.

 

I also saw in another thread you stated that people in Japan don't view the word as offensive only Japanese Americans do. While this is correct there's 2 points to this.

 

1. The word was used in America

2. When people in Japanese are explained the meaning of the world they also find it offensive.

 

When the movie Ghost In The Shell was released many people in Japan were asked if it bothered them that the lead character was a white woman was cast to play a Japanese character. Most people said they didn't mind it and like it. They were then told about the bias that Hollywood has against Japanese actors and most changed their mind and said it was wrong.

 

Many people in Japan don't know the word has a duragotory meaning because they don't deal with the same racial divides that we do here in the states. However when they learn how Americans use the word, they absolutely find it offensive.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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"I also saw in another thread you stated that people in Japan don't view the word as offensive only Japanese Americans do"

 

Did I make such a definitive statement? I'm getting old so I don't even remember that.

 

Yes, now in the 21st century the term has picked up some additional baggage, but it can still be used in its original context. The word, used in that context, has no hint of racism in it.

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Yes. And we currently do not live in the 19th century. The word is no longer a neutral word.

I also saw in another thread you stated that people in Japan don't view the word as offensive only Japanese Americans do. While this is correct there's 2 points to this.

1. The word was used in America

2. When people in Japanese are explained the meaning of the world they also find it offensive.

When the movie Ghost In The Shell was released many people in Japan were asked if it bothered them that the lead character was a white woman was cast to play a Japanese character. Most people said they didn't mind it and like it. They were then told about the bias that Hollywood has against Japanese actors and most changed their mind and said it was wrong.

Many people in Japan don't know the word has a duragotory meaning because they don't deal with the same racial divides that we do here in the states. However when they learn how Americans use the word, they absolutely find it offensive.

Not all Japanese people find it offensive, even knowing how the word can be used in a derogatory manner in some contexts.

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I disagree. We no longer live in the 19th century and NO context today in the USA is ok to use the word.

I disagree with your opinion. Its pre-derogatory historical use is still valid in my eyes. After the fact bigotry should have no bearing on the original term imo.

Edited by bigmik

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This debate seems dumb to me. Isn't the easiest thing to do either a) not use the term regardless of who is right or wrong because it clearly offends someone or b) use it anyway and ignore that someone gets triggered by it?  I'd go with A myself but that's mostly because I try not to be a jerk; B is a valid option as well.

 

I used to have time for these kind of semantics, back when I was 18 and in college, but I don't know how some of you muster up the energy.  Retired maybe?

Edited by LoStNuMbEr

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I disagree. We no longer live in the 19th century and NO context today in the USA is ok to use the word.

Did you put the ban on this word? Was that at the same time you were polling in Japan about what they find offensive?

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Not all Japanese people find it offensive, even knowing how the word can be used in a derogatory manner in some contexts.

Correct. That doesnt make the word any less wrong to use.

Also you speak of context where it's "ok" to use. Often times when it is used is when it's a written abbreviation for the country Japan. It's never used as an abbreviation for a person.

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You're right man. It's not an offensive racial slur. What the heck was I thinking???

 

And you called me a drag! LOL

I'm sure you find quite a number of things offensive. Far more than a normal person.

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Did you put the ban on this word? Was that at the same time you were polling in Japan about what they find offensive?

This may ruffle some feathers, but even if every Japanese person finds it offensive, that doesn't mean it can't be used in a non derogatory way. At least I don't think so. Would the same thing apply to "woman"? A lot of women think that word along with "female" are sexist/misogynistic. If all women agree to this, does that mean we can never use the term without being rude or worse?

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Correct. That doesnt make the word any less wrong to use.

Also you speak of context where it's "ok" to use. Often times when it is used is when it's a written abbreviation for the country Japan. It's never used as an abbreviation for a person.

It begs the question to say that it's always wrong to use. That's an assertion in need of a supporting argument. What do you mean that it's never used as an abbreviation for a person? I still hear it used that way every so often.

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Discussing Gilman's actual wrestling though, it's like this rule set was made for him.  He was bad on bottom in Folk and that goes away.  He's perfect sized for the weight.  He has great conditioning and the one day battle royale helps him grind on guys.  

 

Gilman at Freestyle 57 is like James Green at Freestyle 70 KG.  Some guys are just way better suited to some styles.

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It begs the question to say that it's always wrong to use. That's an assertion in need of a supporting argument. What do you mean that it's never used as an abbreviation for a person? I still hear it used that way every so often.

And to do so is offensive. You can say it wasn't MENT to be offensive, but it still is offensive.

 

 

 

Discussing Gilman's actual wrestling though, it's like this rule set was made for him.  He was bad on bottom in Folk and that goes away.  He's perfect sized for the weight.  He has great conditioning and the one day battle royale helps him grind on guys.  

 

Gilman at Freestyle 57 is like James Green at Freestyle 70 KG.  Some guys are just way better suited to some styles.

Yes, back to the ORIGINAL point of this post. Gilman is the real deal at this weight and in freestyle. He is a legitimate world championship contender in 2018.

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"And to do so is offensive. You can say it wasn't MENT to be offensive, but it still is offensive"

 

Maybe it's offensive to you. To others it may not be offensive, and there's nothing inherently offensive about the original use of the term. To say otherwise is an assertion in need of an argument.

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I take offense to that.  Who are you to assume her gender

 

I think you get my point. Everyone takes offense to something. How do we consider everyone's potential upset feelings without butchering the established lines of communication? At some point, we're going to have to turn down someone's or some group's request to ban certain words in society. And if we do that, are we in the right? Or are we racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.

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