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hammerlockthree

Is Snyder the best Freestyler in the world?

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Yes.  I'd love to see him at a GP that does the money match between 97 and Heavy.  I think he'd have a shot with the top heavies.  His pace takes them out of their comfort zone and his ability to never get punished for his shots removes lots of their advantage over the smaller man.

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Who is in the convo? Yazdani Chariti? Chamizo? 

 

I'm of the opinion you can't be in the discussion unless your a reigning world champ.

 

Even though he lost yesterday, you cannot remove Sadulaev from consideration.

 

Prior to the loss to Snyder, the kid had never lost at a World Championship at any level (2x Cadet, 2x Senior).  

 

Is there any real doubt that he is no worse than #2 in terms of ability?

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I think it depends on if you think Sadulaev could no longer make 86 and hence went up...Or did he just do it because he was looking for a challenge?

 

When I said "at least #2", I was talking about his ability, not his resume....If Snyder went up for fun and lost to the Georgian 125 at a tournament, it does not take away from his ability?  No, he just lost to a bigger guy while testing himself.

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I think it depends on if you think Sadulaev could no longer make 86 and hence went up...Or did he just do it because he was looking for a challenge?

 

When I said "at least #2", I was talking about his ability, not his resume....If Snyder went up for fun and lost to the Georgian 125 at a tournament, it does not take away from his ability?  No, he just lost to a bigger guy while testing himself.

But if Snyder went up for a year and lost at 125 and had 2 calendar years between world titles, you wouldn't keep him at #1.

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I think it depends on if you think Sadulaev could no longer make 86 and hence went up...Or did he just do it because he was looking for a challenge?

 

 

 

Someone on twitter (want to say Hrovat) said Sadulaev weighed in at 95.5 fully clothed and in shoes, which means he was probably closer to 94 kilos. 

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1. Burroughs 2. Snyder 3. Sadulaev 4. Yazdani 5. Chamizo

Even Burroughs himself said Snyder is the man. At the "moment" Snyder is the worlds P4P. It was just decided. Sad was undefeated for three years and never had lost a senior sanctioned event. What Snyder has done the last three years is unprecedented. He had to beat Olympic champ Varner to make the team in 15 and 16, had to beat World champ and multiple time medalist in Gadisov, had to beat World champ and multiple time medalist Gazymazov to win Olympics and just beat mult world and Olympic undefeated champ Saduleav and P4P king. no one in their right mind would place Burroughs #1 P4P although he deserves an honorable mention to be in the top 5.

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Maroulis was the most dominant, no doubt about it. However, I think it's perfectly fair to measure her against other women. Women's Freestyle Wrestling is its own sport after all. I'm a fan of our women, and I don't think we have much to gain from arguments where we compare them to the men. I have faith that by 2024 she'll be amongst the GOAT worldwide in her sport, and she'll have made huge cultural contributions to the larger wrestling community. I guess I'd rather focus on what is fair in comparison than what is not fair.

 

Chamizo was impressive, but as far as making a statement goes, Aliyev went 8-0, 10-1, 10-0, Fall, Fall. Yazdanicharati only gave up 2pts, but otherwise dominated everyone as well. The usual argument about Olympic weights being more competitive than non-Olympic doesn't hold much water this year - the very beginning of a 4yr cycle when there's general uncertainty about future weight classes. I still love JB, and seeing him rebound is very rewarding, but I don't see a great argument for him given the dominant performances across the field. 

 

 

I'd like to believe that Snyder's win was the most impressive, but even Snyder called it a mismatch in his post match interview. It was still my most exciting match to watch, but now that it's passed I can see an argument that the result should have been expected. I actually think Snyder has quite a bit of room to improve on that performance, and might be more dominant in a rematch.

 

Maroulis is the P4P best in Women's. That's an easy pick.

I'll stick with Snyder in Men's and give him credit for handing a loss to the most dominant wrestler of recent years. I'd appreciate seeing an argument for Aliyev or Yazdanicharati. I wasn't really paying attention to them while focusing on our guys, just looking at the brackets.

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Maroulis was the most dominant, no doubt about it. However, I think it's perfectly fair to measure her against other women. Women's Freestyle Wrestling is its own sport after all. I'm a fan of our women, and I don't think we have much to gain from arguments where we compare them to the men. I have faith that by 2024 she'll be amongst the GOAT worldwide in her sport, and she'll have made huge cultural contributions to the larger wrestling community. I guess I'd rather focus on what is fair in comparison than what is not fair.

 

Chamizo was impressive, but as far as making a statement goes, Aliyev went 8-0, 10-1, 10-0, Fall, Fall. Yazdanicharati only gave up 2pts, but otherwise dominated everyone as well. The usual argument about Olympic weights being more competitive than non-Olympic doesn't hold much water this year - the very beginning of a 4yr cycle when there's general uncertainty about future weight classes. I still love JB, and seeing him rebound is very rewarding, but I don't see a great argument for him given the dominant performances across the field. 

 

 

I'd like to believe that Snyder's win was the most impressive, but even Snyder called it a mismatch in his post match interview. It was still my most exciting match to watch, but now that it's passed I can see an argument that the result should have been expected. I actually think Snyder has quite a bit of room to improve on that performance, and might be more dominant in a rematch.

 

Maroulis is the P4P best in Women's. That's an easy pick.

I'll stick with Snyder in Men's and give him credit for handing a loss to the most dominant wrestler of recent years. I'd appreciate seeing an argument for Aliyev or Yazdanicharati. I wasn't really paying attention to them while focusing on our guys, just looking at the brackets.

If the question is best freestyler, then Maroulis is not in the discussion.

 

If the question is most dominant USA wrestler then she moves to the front or near the front of the line.  Dominance is relative to competition and you measure her against the best women in the world.  Best means best.

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Still Sadulaev in my opinion. Snyder beat him and definitely deserved the win, but the size advantage is too much to ignore.

 

When considering who is the best lb. for lb. it is only fair to imagine them wrestling each other with all things equal. Without the size advantage I think Sads beats him by a couple. Still, that isn't a knock on Snyder as I don't think anyone else could keep it that close!

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So you are positive sadulaev handles yazdani? 

 

i think that stance is fairly ridiculous. He didn't bump up for an All Star match. The most highly scrutinized athlete in the sport, holding the flag for multiple nations and federations decided to move up...it wasn't a frivolous decision, and he didn't do it challenge himself.

Edited by hammerlockthree

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So you are positive sadulaev handles yazdani? 

 

i think that stance is fairly ridiculous. He didn't bump up for an All Star match. The most highly scrutinized athlete in the sport, holding the flag for multiple nations and federations decided to move up...it wasn't a frivolous decision, and he didn't do it challenge himself.

Yep.  He was wrestling in his weight class.  You don't get extra credit for being undersized in your weight class.  Kyle Dake wasn't a better wrestler than Cox in 2016.  Sadulaev wasn't a better wrestler than Snyder in 2017.  

 

If they wrestled at 92 KGs and you wanted to argue that Sadulaev was the favorite in such a match, I could see it, since Snyder would be losing good size.  But they both entered the same weight class and Snyder won.  He's now a 3X defending champ at 21.  He's definitively the better wrestler today.

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