Jump to content


Photo

Pico Updates?


  • Please log in to reply
87 replies to this topic

#41 maolsen

maolsen

    Bronze Member

  • Members
  • 488 posts

Posted 25 September 2017 - 09:18 AM

That first jab, from a guy that should be washing cars, sure got Pico's attention.
Everyone but you sees the same thing. No head movement, easy target. He has had two fights, against borderline amateur level competition, and been hit cleanly in both multiple times.

two 10 pro fight fighters with winning records equal borderline amateur level? What? In all honesty his first two fights should have been against guys with losing records or maybe barely a winning record. You guys are being way to critical of a fighter with only 2 fights under his belt, and he won, by ko. Also I would hope that former UFC champ Frankie Edgar could handle a 1 and 1 fighter. if not, it would not bode well for Edgars career.

Edited by maolsen, 25 September 2017 - 09:24 AM.

  • dtl38, GoNotQuietly and AllISeeIsBronze like this

#42 wrestlingnerd

wrestlingnerd

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 7,763 posts

Posted 25 September 2017 - 10:14 AM

Whoever says Pico doesn't have good hands--far superior to that of a relatively untrained wrestler--knows next to nothing about boxing. Pico has excellent punching technique. That left hook he won the fight with was hellacious. You could hear the pop of a perfectly landed power shot from a mile away. 

 

I admit to being surprised by his lack of boxing defense given his background, and that is one area he needs to work on for sure, but his punching is superb, especially for a guy with only 2 pro fights under his belt.


Edited by wrestlingnerd, 25 September 2017 - 10:15 AM.

  • GoNotQuietly likes this

#43 Cletus_Tucker

Cletus_Tucker

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 3,360 posts

Posted 25 September 2017 - 11:17 AM

^^^It jumps right out if you know boxing.   His hands are very polished already.    The hook was almost an arm punch.   He hardly leaned into it.   Just let it go and it detonated on the chin.    That was scary.   



#44 sgallan

sgallan

    Hall of Fame Member

  • Members
  • 29,915 posts

Posted 25 September 2017 - 01:09 PM

Lack of defense and a weak chin is usually a really bad combination. You cannot coach a good chin, just try not to get hit much. He would be best served going the common wrestler route of good defense, some kicks, he already has enough striking skills to keep them honest, work stand up until he can get it to ground. If he wants to be a strike he is going to be an unconscience striker. Key take away, you are born with a chin. He doesn't seem to be.
  • Billyhoyle likes this

#45 PSUMike

PSUMike

    Silver Member

  • Members
  • 1,248 posts

Posted 26 September 2017 - 12:53 AM

I'm surprised at how easily he gets hit.  For a guy with his extensive striking background, fighting low end MMA guys, he sure doesn't look super polished on his feet.  Strong kid, athletic...but nowhere near elite level MMA at this point.

A guy like Edgar would take him apart.

 

Wait, so you mean one of the best fighters ever would pick apart a 21 year old with 2 pro fights? 

 

I wish stupidity was painful.


  • Cletus_Tucker likes this

#46 PSUMike

PSUMike

    Silver Member

  • Members
  • 1,248 posts

Posted 26 September 2017 - 01:12 AM

So I am almost as big of an MMA fan as I am of wrestling. Been pretty closely following the sport since 04-05ish. Some brief thoughts on Pico and what he's shown thus far in terms of development:

 

1. Take a step back and remember he's 21 years old with 2 professional fights, both against guys with far more experience than he has. 

2. Virtually every fighter's 2nd fight is in a regional promotion against a no name fighter with a 0-1 or 1-0 record. 

3. He has a ton of power and fast hands. The counter left hook he landed was not only powerful but lightning fast.

4. Yes, he eats too many shots. This should be expected for someone at his stage of development. 

5. Yes, he's a little over-aggressive but it was tempered more in this fight than his previous. 

6. I am more concerned with his seeming lack of a submission offense than his striking defense. He had Linn on the mat for a decent amount of time and was content to punch while never actually looking to lock something in. I'd like to see a mixture of both. 

7. 145 is much better suited for his frame. He looked to be a good sized FW while he was a small LW. 

8. Energy conservation is something he'll need to work on. You see a lot of talented young fighters punch themselves out in the 1st only to gas in the 2nd and get finished in the 3rd by someone they are much more skilled than. His flurry against the cage looked pretty but was largely ineffective. 

9. Compared to Ed Ruth at his 2nd fight, Pico is very far more developed as a complete MMA fighter. 

 

I like what I see and I did see improvement. Yes, he has a ways to go before he's ready for the top 20 of the game but he has plenty of time to develop and hone his skills. 


  • GoNotQuietly likes this

#47 BigTenFanboy

BigTenFanboy

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 5,031 posts

Posted 26 September 2017 - 01:33 AM

So I am almost as big of an MMA fan as I am of wrestling. Been pretty closely following the sport since 04-05ish. Some brief thoughts on Pico and what he's shown thus far in terms of development:

 

1. Take a step back and remember he's 21 years old with 2 professional fights, both against guys with far more experience than he has. 

2. Virtually every fighter's 2nd fight is in a regional promotion against a no name fighter with a 0-1 or 1-0 record. 

3. He has a ton of power and fast hands. The counter left hook he landed was not only powerful but lightning fast.

4. Yes, he eats too many shots. This should be expected for someone at his stage of development. 

5. Yes, he's a little over-aggressive but it was tempered more in this fight than his previous. 

6. I am more concerned with his seeming lack of a submission offense than his striking defense. He had Linn on the mat for a decent amount of time and was content to punch while never actually looking to lock something in. I'd like to see a mixture of both. 

7. 145 is much better suited for his frame. He looked to be a good sized FW while he was a small LW. 

8. Energy conservation is something he'll need to work on. You see a lot of talented young fighters punch themselves out in the 1st only to gas in the 2nd and get finished in the 3rd by someone they are much more skilled than. His flurry against the cage looked pretty but was largely ineffective. 

9. Compared to Ed Ruth at his 2nd fight, Pico is very far more developed as a complete MMA fighter. 

 

I like what I see and I did see improvement. Yes, he has a ways to go before he's ready for the top 20 of the game but he has plenty of time to develop and hone his skills. 

 

I agree with everything you've written here. My only concern with Pico is whether he stays in the game for the long haul. Every level he's competed in he's jumped in, created a storm and then jumped out pretty quick. His HS career was 1 season. His international career was over before he was 21. While yes I get that he had "bigger goals" to accomplish, I just hope to see him commit and stay with this for the long haul. IMO he has the potential to be the best in the world.



#48 wrestlingnerd

wrestlingnerd

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 7,763 posts

Posted 26 September 2017 - 02:21 AM

I agree with everything you've written here. My only concern with Pico is whether he stays in the game for the long haul. Every level he's competed in he's jumped in, created a storm and then jumped out pretty quick. His HS career was 1 season. His international career was over before he was 21. While yes I get that he had "bigger goals" to accomplish, I just hope to see him commit and stay with this for the long haul. IMO he has the potential to be the best in the world.

 

That's because MMA was always the ultimate goal, and wrestling was merely a bridge to that goal. Now that he's doing what he always iintended, I see him sticking around for the long haul. His post-fight interview confirmed this intent. He said he is going to stay patient and "in his lane", developing slowly until he becomes a world champ. 


  • BigTenFanboy likes this

#49 mspart

mspart

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 6,144 posts

Posted 26 September 2017 - 08:21 AM

Yeah, that strike was pretty brutal.  I only saw that punch really.  Decked the guy hard.  I figured he get the guy on the ground and submit him for a win.  That left hook is dangerous and came from nowhere.  Tough to see until is it slowed down. 

 

mspart



#50 Frank_Rizzo

Frank_Rizzo

    Silver Member

  • Members
  • 1,514 posts

Posted 27 September 2017 - 05:27 AM

Pico seems to have absolutely no power behind his punches.  

 

LD2fbIF7_400x400.jpeg


  • Cletus_Tucker and Witherman like this

"I don't like the sport of wrestling as you know.  It's a low sport.  And I don't like to see you being low."


#51 LoStNuMbEr

LoStNuMbEr

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 8,154 posts

Posted 27 September 2017 - 07:59 AM

I think people underestimate just how freaking good professional fighters are.  Its easy to watch two trained professionals get in the ring and nitpick over small technical deficiencies, but that kind of thing only stands out because of how high their skill level is.

 

I'm "pretty good" at Jiu Jitsu and I've beaten former marines and other tough guys in backyard grappling matches.  There are a couple of good wrestlers with around my level of BJJ experience at my school who destroy me.  Those guys get destroyed by the advanced belts, and those advanced belt guys get destroyed by the advanced belts from other schools that are competition powerhouses.

 

I'm better at submission grappling than 95%+ of the population, and I'm like 3 standard deviations away from being competent enough to compete in a cage.  I have to imagine its very similar with striking.  Anyone who has the balls to step in the cage has my respect, especially if they have a 7-3 record.

 

This is a forum and we are all armchair quarterbacking, I get that.  But lets not throw shade on Justin Linn; unless you've had serious legitimate training he could probably beat up the guy who could beat up the guy who could beat up the guy that you might be able to take in a fight.  


  • nom, BigBrog, TobusRex and 6 others like this

#52 Witherman

Witherman

    Bronze Member

  • Members
  • 679 posts

Posted 28 September 2017 - 08:11 AM

Pico seems to have absolutely no power behind his punches.  

 

 

do me a favor bud, go study up on boxing for a while and watch a ton of film, hang out at gyms, talk to experts and ex-pros.  ask every one of them if they think the below gif is an impressive punch and example of power & precision.  get back to me with the answers please.

 

 

jzedifwhb9nod83mntpu.gif


  • sgallan, Cletus_Tucker and CA_Wrestler like this

#53 sgallan

sgallan

    Hall of Fame Member

  • Members
  • 29,915 posts

Posted 28 September 2017 - 01:28 PM

do me a favor bud, go study up on boxing for a while and watch a ton of film, hang out at gyms, talk to experts and ex-pros. ask every one of them if they think the below gif is an impressive punch and example of power & precision. get back to me with the answers please.


jzedifwhb9nod83mntpu.gif

Spot on great left hook. As good as it gets. But, this is not boxing, it is MMA. Seems like this debate just happened when an MMA guy striker suckered people into a big paycheck while losing to a boxer. BTW, not my money. Pico actually looked like a boxer which could explain why he got hit in an MMA match. Boxer stance, boxer KO, but a good MMA guy could, and has, taken advantage of Pico not putting all those skills together.

#54 wrestlingnerd

wrestlingnerd

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 7,763 posts

Posted 28 September 2017 - 01:41 PM

A gallant makes a good point. Nobody has mentioned this yet, but in my opinion, Pico’s greatest weakness is his inability to mount an attack from “MMA distance”. The biggest difference in striking between boxing and MMA is the distance required. Because MMA involves legs and knees, not to speak of upper body striking techniques illegal in boxing (spinning backfists, spinning elbows, Superman lunches, etc.), you’re exposed from twice as far away as you are in boxing. A well-rounded striker could pick a boxer apart using only strikes by keeping distance and taking potshots from afar. Any good Muay Thai boxer would leg kick the sht out of even elite boxers in a real (or MMA Style) fight. José Aldo used to be the master of this despite being short until he decided to become more of a boxer (his career consequently took a nosedive).

In his two fights, Pico has only threatened his opponent by walking them down and closing the gap. This strategy won’t work against a top-level MMA striker. Until he learns to kick, it would be wise for him to mix in more wrestling, like someone already mentioned. I’m

#55 BigTenFanboy

BigTenFanboy

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 5,031 posts

Posted 28 September 2017 - 02:06 PM

A gallant makes a good point. Nobody has mentioned this yet, but in my opinion, Pico’s greatest weakness is his inability to mount an attack from “MMA distance”. The biggest difference in striking between boxing and MMA is the distance required. Because MMA involves legs and knees, not to speak of upper body striking techniques illegal in boxing (spinning backfists, spinning elbows, Superman lunches, etc.), you’re exposed from twice as far away as you are in boxing. A well-rounded striker could pick a boxer apart using only strikes by keeping distance and taking potshots from afar. Any good Muay Thai boxer would leg kick the sht out of even elite boxers in a real (or MMA Style) fight. José Aldo used to be the master of this despite being short until he decided to become more of a boxer (his career consequently took a nosedive).
In his two fights, Pico has only threatened his opponent by walking them down and closing the gap. This strategy won’t work against a top-level MMA striker. Until he learns to kick, it would be wise for him to mix in more wrestling, like someone already mentioned. I’m


Great post. Which is why McGregor never really stood a chance against Mayweather..
  • wrestlingnerd likes this

#56 Billyhoyle

Billyhoyle

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 3,361 posts

Posted 28 September 2017 - 02:54 PM

do me a favor bud, go study up on boxing for a while and watch a ton of film, hang out at gyms, talk to experts and ex-pros.  ask every one of them if they think the below gif is an impressive punch and example of power & precision.  get back to me with the answers please.

 

 

jzedifwhb9nod83mntpu.gif

Yes, I admit that "absolutely no power" was wrong of me to say. It was hyperbole, and he clearly has some if he puts it behind a punch. But in that fight I saw him land a ton of punches without them doing much until his opponent was exhausted, at which point he was able to get the KO by unloading. I think whenever he faces somebody that is a professional and has the conditioning to fight and punch back hard, he is in for a lot of trouble given that he has a suspect chin.  Jake Rosholt would absolutely demolish people he would overmatch, but he had similar issues when he started facing other top fighters. 

 

MMA/boxing are not sports that are great for on the job training. As he takes more damage, it will take less and less for him to get KOed. That's just how concussions work. It's not like wrestling where you can get teched and it won't impact your next match.  I'm starting to think that the Askren route (only fighting easy opponents) or possibly returning to freestyle wrestling might be his best option after those first two fights.  



#57 PRyan2012

PRyan2012

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 3,044 posts

Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:44 AM

Jake Rosholt destroyed lesser guys as well...destroyed them! Same when he was wrestling. I remember when Rosholt wrestled Cael at the 2004 US Open semi final and just finished his 3rd NCAA title and dominated his first three matches. I was so hyped for that match! Then Cael absolutely destroyed him 9-0 which in todays world would have been 18-0. 8 takedowns and an ankle lace while he never even got to Cael's leg once. Pico, at least from whet I am seeing now will get to top 5 but will get destroyed by the elite title contenders but destroy anyone lesser than him. Hope I am wrong.



#58 Cletus_Tucker

Cletus_Tucker

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 3,360 posts

Posted 01 October 2017 - 06:24 PM

do me a favor bud, go study up on boxing for a while and watch a ton of film, hang out at gyms, talk to experts and ex-pros.  ask every one of them if they think the below gif is an impressive punch and example of power & precision.  get back to me with the answers please.

 

 

jzedifwhb9nod83mntpu.gif

 

 

 

 

Wow, what a thing of beauty.  The speed with which he delivers that shot, coupled with the placement,  that's a high level display of striking.    



#59 Witherman

Witherman

    Bronze Member

  • Members
  • 679 posts

Posted 20 January 2018 - 04:10 PM

Kinda reviving a thread from the dead, but pico stopped his fight tonight with a body shot.

Still think there’s no power there? Will post gif as soon as available.
  • GoNotQuietly likes this

#60 GoNotQuietly

GoNotQuietly

    Silver Member

  • Members
  • 1,635 posts

Posted 20 January 2018 - 04:42 PM

Pico basically just put his fist through the side of that guys body.  Unreal power.

 

Sweet matador celebration, too


Edited by GoNotQuietly, 20 January 2018 - 04:42 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users