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MadMardigain

Cadet Worlds

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ConnorsDad, I have to strongly disagree about the shortening of the periods. I feel it'll just put us back in the same rut we were in a few years ago with the ball grab era, where two guys stand there for a minute of so, make one attempt, and that's the match. I think the three minute periods create far scoring opportunities, bring more excitement and satisfaction for everyone involved. If asked, I would also like it if the Cadets to go three minute periods, it kind of bugs me that they don't. I think the three minute periods, make conditioning and physical attrition and the subsequent strategy that goes into all that, part of the game. Imagine if we went back to two minute periods, Kyle would've never had the time to wear out Sadulaev, or even Gadisov for that matter. I think going back to two minute periods would change the entire landscape, and not for the better.

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A cadet world champ and junior world champ in the same year, awesome step for our greco program! Congrats to Cohlton Schultz!!

Crazy that in a year or two we will have two recent age level world champs battling for the same Junior Greco spot. I guess that's a good problem to have.

 

 

Anyone have an update on where the Greco team stands right now? Curious if we have a shot at a decent finish (by current our Greco standards) since the first day had so many different countries represented in the medal matches.

Edited by MadMardigain

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Crazy that in a year or two we will have two recent age level world champs battling for the same Junior Greco spot. I guess that's a good problem to have.

Anyone have an update on where the Greco team stands right now? Curious if we have a shot at a decent finish (by current our Greco standards) since the first day had so many different countries represented in the medal matches.

After day one, or the five weights that are completely done, here are your standings:

 

 

1. Russia-40 1st, 3-3rds, 5th

2. Iran-29 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 9th

3. Japan-24 1st 3rd 5th

4. Tie-US,Ukraine, Georgia & Kazakhstan

 

With with only two guys in the repechage, it will be hard for us to finish fourth or better. There are only five other teams with double-digit points. And looking at tomorrow's wrestlers, here is how I've broken it down and see it finishing.

 

As far as first goes, Russia's going to win. They have 1 in the finals, two in the bronze match and one in the repechage. The race is for second and third. The Ukraine has three in the finals tomorrow and should score points with four wrestlers. I have the Ukraine beating Iran by a point with Georgia one point behind in fourth and Kazakhstan a few points back in 5th. Then, its Azerbaijan 6th, Japan 7th, India 8th, Turkey 9th and the US 10th. This is without giving the US credit for any points tomorrow. Both wrestlers of ours in the repechage have matches and potential matches against countries that are not Greco Powers. Also our 85kg wrestler Sharp can score points as long as Iran and Hungary do not make a run through the repechage which is certainly a possibility. If I had to make a call now I would say we might finish 9th instead of 10th but that is about it unless our guys get to the bronze matches.

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ConnorsDad, I have to strongly disagree about the shortening of the periods. I feel it'll just put us back in the same rut we were in a few years ago with the ball grab era, where two guys stand there for a minute of so, make one attempt, and that's the match. I think the three minute periods create far scoring opportunities, bring more excitement and satisfaction for everyone involved. If asked, I would also like it if the Cadets to go three minute periods, it kind of bugs me that they don't. I think the three minute periods, make conditioning and physical attrition and the subsequent strategy that goes into all that, part of the game. Imagine if we went back to two minute periods, Kyle would've never had the time to wear out Sadulaev, or even Gadisov for that matter. I think going back to two minute periods would change the entire landscape, and not for the better.

You cant disagree with me because I never said or implied it was better. It was simply a question to see what others thought and it was mainly for greco. Freestyle is certainly fine. I was just grabbing at straws to try and help greco.

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IMHO, shortened periods surely do nothing to promote action...

 

personally, i despise any shortening of anything because it removes yet another aspect of competition... endurance

 

that being said, my beloved greco obviously needs help... lindland had an interview where he implied they were bringing back forced par terre and praise odin for it... at least they would have to earn points instead of being "gifted" them subjectively... plus, there is nothing better than a good gut wrench or gut defense... gut wrenches steal your sole... there is sacrifice even practicing them... get good or get out...  

 

as an aside, someone mentioned adding leg on leg attacks aka dirty greco... i would do cartwheels if this was instituted... it would definitely open up the scoring opportunities and keep the majority of matches from being purely positioning battles, but, i would not hold my breath on it ever happening... too foreign to the rest of the world who actually values greco equally if not more than free...

 

regardless, congrats to cohlton and lindland... US greco is on the upswing and nothing makes me giddier than seeing the US improve in the best style of wrestling... 

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We've seen the two younger age groups (Junior and Cadets) throw each other around with proficiency and rather good technique, even at the medal rounds, so maybe we're still purging Greco of the old system and boring wrestlers who game the system to win and just waiting for these "grab and go" and "step and throw" guys to knock off the older wrestlers. 

 

Just a thought. I could be way off here, but the Juniors and Cadets have no problem locking up and throwing one another. I ran a quick breakdown of the scoring in matches from day 1 and the average match was like 6-1 (in 4 minutes) compared to the snoozer 2-1's we saw in France in 6 minutes. 

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We've seen the two younger age groups (Junior and Cadets) throw each other around with proficiency and rather good technique, even at the medal rounds, so maybe we're still purging Greco of the old system and boring wrestlers who game the system to win and just waiting for these "grab and go" and "step and throw" guys to knock off the older wrestlers.

 

Just a thought. I could be way off here, but the Juniors and Cadets have no problem locking up and throwing one another. I ran a quick breakdown of the scoring in matches from day 1 and the average match was like 6-1 (in 4 minutes) compared to the snoozer 2-1's we saw in France in 6 minutes.

I hope you are right, but I think it is wishful thinking.

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Excellent match. Not a ton of scoring but it didn't seem like the snoozefest that a lot of senior Greco matches did this year. Is it possible that the shortened time periods make for more action?

I wasnt able to watch, just following updates. Personally I dont like the idea of shortened periods for cadets. Just looking at scores and reading about matches, it certainly appears to be much more scoring in cadets and juniors than seniors. Juniors at the same match length as seniors, so I dont think the time is a factor. Just my opinion tho.

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Well, neither guy in repechage was able to win a match, but I still think we saw a ton of improvement on our age level teams in Greco this year. The medal hauls werent great, 1 in cadets and 2 in juniors, but the overall competitiveness of our guys is what was encouraging. 1 medal in cadets, but 4 others reached the quarters. 2 medals in juniors, 1 lost the medal match and had been in the medal match 3 straight years with 1 medal, and another returning medalist got upset in 1/4's. Of course, what makes these results even nicer is the fact that these medals are now gold. The few and far between medals we have been getting have been all bronze, and while it is nice to get any medal at this level, having world champions is even better!

 

I'm certainly not saying we will be back to the '06/'07 results next year, and I was as discouraged as anyone with the seniors performance, I just think there is reason to be optimistic. It looks like the grassroots development of the program is headed in the right direction. It took quite a few years to turn our freestyle program around, it didnt happen overnight, it was a long process but look where it got us. From zero medals and really nobody even competitive for one in 2010, to team champions in 2017, plus the amazing junior and cadet success. There is hope for our greco program to get back to respectability and maybe even be among the top countries in the world again.

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Below are listed the point totals for the team race that I calculated sort of on the fly so I hope they're not too many errors. Unfortunately, neither of our guys were able to win their repechage matches and Hungary had a strong second day and passed the US for 10th Place. A very, very important point to note is how well my predictions went for day 2 (I am joking, kidding, being facetious and all that other stuff. Just don't want anybody to get a case of the red ass.) My predictions were Russia, the Ukraine in second a point ahead of Iran who is a pt. ahead of Georgia and Kazakhstan a few more back. The second five was Azerbaijan in 6th, Japan 7th, India, Turkey and the US in 10th.

 

 

The actual results were:

1. Russia 64

2. Iran 50

3. Ukraine 49

4. Georgia 48

5. Kazakhstan 41

6. Japan 34

7. Azerbaijan 33

8. Turkey 29

9. India 28

10. Hungary 26

11. US 23

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Sorry jumped the gun on thinking and lumped Gable into the Greco discussion. I'd say he would be more than capable of a Greco title, but he's handling Freestyle business.

Gotcha. Still nice to know we have a nice future at heavyweight in both styles. I'm thinking we might see Braxton Amos in cadet freestyle and Tyler Curd in cadet greco at worlds next year and both of those guys could do a nice job keeping the success at 100kg going for us.

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First session of freestyle, we have 1 in the semis, Will Lewan at 69kg, and all 4 others still possibly alive to be pulled back in. Hopefully the semis are better to us in freestyle than they were in greco and we can get a few guys back in for bronze tomorrow.

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First session of freestyle, we have 1 in the semis, Will Lewan at 69kg, and all 4 others still possibly alive to be pulled back in. Hopefully the semis are better to us in freestyle than they were in greco and we can get a few guys back in for bronze tomorrow.

It is a young team. Little disappointed in the results, but not a terrible performance

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Only 4 team members are eligible for next year. Howard is the only one on his first year of UWW cadet eligibility.

Maybe I should've put new, not young

 

They are new to the international scene. Last year we had multiple returning world medalists. This year we have 1

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Only 4 team members are eligible for next year.  Howard is the only one on his first year of UWW cadet eligibility.  

skinner at 42 first year...

 

i have my thoughts on what happened there, but, probably better to keep them to myself... 

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