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hammerlockthree

Best Legger Ever (Where is Zain in the discussion)

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Sheets, Retherford, Churella?

 

I got started on this cause I finally found some film of sheets, haven't seen much of churella. Please don't derail the conversation with a bunch of guys who won by just clinging on for dear life. And I don't mean the best wrestler who rode legs either. For instance Taylor rode legs, but he had such a huge and diverse skill set on top i wouldn't count him. 

Edited by hammerlockthree

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Sheets, Retherford, Churella?

 

I got started on this cause I finally found some film of sheets, haven't seen much of churella. Please don't derail the conversation with a bunch of guys who won by just clinging on for dear life. And I don't mean the best wrestler who rode legs either. For instance Taylor rode legs, but he had such a huge and diverse skill set on top i wouldn't count him. 

Hard to beat that bunch as far as former champions. 

 

There are legions of guys over the years who were brutal on top.

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I would say that Retherford has one of the most punishing double leg rides DI has had.  Is he the most proficient? No.  But, he absolutely saps the life out of everyone underneath him.  Sheets and Churella were pretty damn brutal as well.  David Morgan was really good with them, too!

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The problem with evaluating this is, the results tend to converge.  Really good leg riders tend to look similar, and once you hit "nobody gets out from under this guy" it's very hard to distinguish.

 

Actually turning people would be an important way to differentiate.  If you could cross-reference "people who mostly rode legs" with "nearfall points earned", it would be very interesting, but I doubt you'll find good records for nearfall points.  You could scan the list of top pinners, and look for leg riders, at least.

 

I'd give style points to someone who was adept with both parallel legs and cross-body legs.  It doesn't mean he was more effective overall, but versatility is admirable.

 

From my era, Terry and Troy Steiner deserve mention.  At a time when I didn't worry much about getting off bottom in the NCAAs, I knew that if one of those guys got a boot in during practice, I'd be 20 or 30 minutes fighting my way off bottom... and I think they were 3 and 4 weights below me.  If you'll excuse me for patting myself on the back, I think I was roughly as good as they were.  Our technique was similar, and again, it's really hard to tell who is better after a certain point.  (By the way, I felt matwork got easier once I graduated from high school.  Pennsylvanians were brutal with this stuff.)

 

Also, Dave Schultz isn't remembered as a leg rider, but he was damned nasty with legs... as with just about everything else on top.

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You could put Dake in the discussion. He did other things, but when he put legs in he was great.

Dake was phenomenal on top in every category but he was more of a claw and tight waist guy than a legger. He had the best tight waist in history.

 

 

Separately, very interesting to hear Ray Brinzer's thoughts. I always thought leggers had the best chance of moving up in weight and doing well because getting a boot in is such a great size and strength equalizer.

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You could put Dake in the discussion. He did other things, but when he put legs in he was great.

 

I don't count Dake because he wasn't a prolific turner, and he rode with about tool in the chest, didn't seem to care as long as he was on top. I think his first two years he used them more as an equalizer, but didn't need em later.

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Dake was phenomenal on top in every category but he was more of a claw and tight waist guy than a legger. He had the best tight waist in history.

 

 

Separately, very interesting to hear Ray Brinzer's thoughts. I always thought leggers had the best chance of moving up in weight and doing well because getting a boot in is such a great size and strength equalizer.

Definitely, but i saw him make a believer out of Molinaro for several minutes.

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not everything is about PSU.....

 

Ironically, by the criteria I am applying, Molinaro is a better leg rider than Dake. By his senior year he was turning everybody, He just doesn't register that way because it was only for a year. 

 

says not everything is about PSU....then makes it about PSU. 

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Sheets, Retherford, Churella?

 

I got started on this cause I finally found some film of sheets, haven't seen much of churella. Please don't derail the conversation with a bunch of guys who won by just clinging on for dear life. And I don't mean the best wrestler who rode legs either. For instance Taylor rode legs, but he had such a huge and diverse skill set on top i wouldn't count him.

Phil Davis

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In a sport where the terminology is different in every town, how can you be sure anything isn't a wrestling term?  Witness the bar arm and chancery... or cement mixer... cement job... cow catcher... etc.

 

The only things we agree on are that a "tripod" has four legs, a "seatbelt" goes around your lower back, and every tournament where people come from further than a long walk can be called, " Nationals".

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