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JBluegill133

Interesting Hvyweight history

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It's interesting that in the past couple years we have seen heavyweight two-timers going for their third upset in the national finals.  T. Nelson upset by Gwiz, then Gwiz upset by Snyder.  Now granted, Kyle is a completely different animal than nelson or Gwiz, but history is against him this year (atleast short term history)  If you were Adam Coon game-planning against Snyder, what would be your thought process?  My idea would be, get the takedown and ride as long as humanly possible and try to keep Kyle off his feet.  He is a dynamo from neutral we all know, but I think I read somewhere he doesn't really work on top/bottom position because internationally it doesn't matter as much (I may be remembering incorrectly)  I would attempt to develop my heavyweights riding as much as possible and then tell him..... 

 

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How about you tell your coach to hire Sadulaev as your personal HWT coach. Then you two may both be able to game plan a useful takedown approach to staying with Snyder. Got to get him down before you can keep him there long enough to add to the riding time.

Edited by MadMardigain

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I pointed this out a while ago in another thread. What you're missing is that the two-timer was upset by a sophomore, that then started the cycle over. So Coon is out, as far as history goes. The only sophomore that is a returning NQ from last year is Missouri's MACtruck jr. So history says he will be your 2018 hwt. national champ.

Edited by Crotalus

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Coon's only chance is to counter shots fast and repeatedly. He's so tall he'll never keep Snyder off his legs. I honestly think the best chance for an upset would be a smaller hvy with great O who can ride. Or someone really heavy and short--and in great shape.

Or two at the same time? Or someone with a gun?

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how many heavyweights 3 timers have there ever been? Haselrig (87-89) most recent one to do it?

Carlton Haselrig UPJ - 87,88,89

Jim Jackson OSU - 76, 77, 78

Dick Hutton OSU - 47, 48, 50 (lost in 49 by ref dec to V Gagne MN)

Earl McCready OSU - 28, 29, 30

 

That's it

Edited by lu1979

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Unless there is an injury, this is one superstition or "trend" that will NOT be broken... Snyder will not be losing to anyone at the NCAA level, ever again, for all eternity.  His next domestic level loss will be to a post grad in about another 8 years.  

Edited by treep2000

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Carlton Haselrig UPJ - 87,88,89

Jim Jackson OSU - 76, 77, 78

Dick Hutton OSU - 47, 48, 50 (lost in 49 by ref dec to V Gagne MN)

Earl McCready OSU - 28, 29, 30

 

That's it

 

Geez...how could I have forgotten Hutton - who would've been the first time 4x champ if not for that controversial RD loss to Gagne.  Incidentally, that was the only loss of his career -  although he did have a tie the same year he finished as runner-up to Verne.  Anybody know who tied him?

Edited by HurricaneWrestling

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Geez...how could I have forgotten Hutton - who would've been the first time 4x champ if not for that controversial RD loss to Gagne.  Incidentally, that was the only loss of his career -  although he did have a tie the same year he finished as runner-up to Verne.  Anybody know who tied him?

Thurman McGraw, Colorado State

 

http://www.wrestlingstats.com/okstate/view_wrestler_bouts.php?start=0&wrestler=142&season=1949

 

McGraw was NCAA #3 seed that year but lost 1st rd.

 

http://www.wrestlingstats.com/ncaa/pdf/brackets/NCAA%201949.pdf

Edited by KTG119

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^ Where is Ideamark?  He'd be a guy that might know who tied Hutton. 

 

Speaking of Ideamark, below's a link to an Intermat article on Minnesota's heavyweight legacy that he wrote back in 2007:

 

https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/2786

 

EDIT:  Or KTG119 would know - LOL!   Nice work, and thanks for the info.

Edited by HurricaneWrestling

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Cool - just googled him - and saw he was quite a football player.  Colorado State's first AA and later a Pro Bowler (played for the Lions from 1950-54). 

 

Below is "Fum's" rookie card - several of which are up on eBay.  Time to tick off "She Who Must Be Obeyed" with another unnecessary expenditure.  LOL!

 

Thurman_McGraw_-_1951_Bowman.jpg

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Coon's only chance is to counter shots fast and repeatedly.  He's so tall he'll never keep Snyder off his legs.  I honestly think the best chance for an upset would be a smaller hvy with great O who can ride.  Or someone really heavy and short--and in great shape.

 

This was my hope with Kasper last year.....didnt work out.  

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How about you tell your coach to hire Sadulaev as your personal HWT coach. Then you two may both be able to game plan a useful takedown approach to staying with Snyder. Got to get him down before you can keep him there long enough to add to the riding time.

 

Sounds like a losing strategy since Snyder has already beaten Sadulaev. At least get a guy whose beaten Kyle.

 

If I was Coon here's how I'd beat Kyle: Anytime I was on my feet with him I'd tie him up and stall my ass off. No way Snyder can keep Coon down, so soon as he lets me (Coon) up, I'd tie him up again....and stall some more. I'm sure you guys are sensing a pattern here. Stall. Then stall some more. Keep Kyle from scoring takedowns, use your superior size to wear him down if at all possible. I'd reckon Snyder is probably too quick for Coon to keep from getting away when Snyder's on bottom. Maybe you can get to the third period with a 1-0 lead then you can hope Snyder tries to do something desperate and you can nail him.

 

Anyway, that's my best advice. Deny offensive takedowns through stalling/tieups, smart positioning on the mat.

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Coon's only chance is to counter shots fast and repeatedly.  He's so tall he'll never keep Snyder off his legs.  I honestly think the best chance for an upset would be a smaller hvy with great O who can ride.  Or someone really heavy and short--and in great shape.

 

Interesting take. I'd toss in the proviso that Coon's height advantage isn't necessarily a bad thing: he'll be able to stick Snyder in a standing cradle if he's not careful. Presumably Kyle is too good to get caught that way (I certainly wasn't, lol). Plus: how many heavies actually USE the cradle, anyway?

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^ Where is Ideamark?  He'd be a guy that might know who tied Hutton. 

 

Speaking of Ideamark, below's a link to an Intermat article on Minnesota's heavyweight legacy that he wrote back in 2007:

 

https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/2786

 

EDIT:  Or KTG119 would know - LOL!   Nice work, and thanks for the info.

Verne Gagne, right?

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The difference between Snyder and Gwiz & Nelson is that Snyder is an absolute scoring machine. He can score on anyone at any time and he can do it to the last second, from his feet. So the only way Snyder is going to lose is if he's behind in the third period and held down and gives up a riding point. For example:

 

First period:

 

Snyder TD, Coon escape. 2-1

 

Second period, Coon down, escape 2-2

 

Third period: Snyder down, no escape.

 

Coon wins 3-2 with riding time.

 

This is the only scenario I see where Snyder loses. But this assume he can only take down Coon once. And as another poster said, this is only possible if Coon can stall like mad and not get dinged for it.

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It's interesting that in the past couple years we have seen heavyweight two-timers going for their third upset in the national finals.  T. Nelson upset by Gwiz, then Gwiz upset by Snyder. 

 

I think the longer trend is for heavyweights who were champs as juniors not repeating their senior year.

D1collegewrestling.net has results back to 2002 and since then seniors trying to defend their title are 1 for their last 7.

 

Lockhart (3rd in 2002)

Mocco (2nd in 2006)

Conrad (1st in 2007)

Ellis (6th in 2010)

Rey (2nd in 2012)

Nelsen (2nd in 2014)

Gwiz (2nd in 2016)

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I think the longer trend is for heavyweights who were champs as juniors not repeating their senior year.

D1collegewrestling.net has results back to 2002 and since then seniors trying to defend their title are 1 for their last 7.

 

Lockhart (3rd in 2002)

Mocco (2nd in 2006)

Conrad (1st in 2007)

Ellis (6th in 2010)

Rey (2nd in 2012)

Nelsen (2nd in 2014)

Gwiz (2nd in 2016)

Konrad

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I think the longer trend is for heavyweights who were champs as juniors not repeating their senior year.

D1collegewrestling.net has results back to 2002 and since then seniors trying to defend their title are 1 for their last 7.

 

Lockhart (3rd in 2002)

Mocco (2nd in 2006)

Conrad (1st in 2007)

Ellis (6th in 2010)

Rey (2nd in 2012)

Nelsen (2nd in 2014)

Gwiz (2nd in 2016)

 

Can anyone do the research to see which weight has proven hardest to repeat as champ?  Heavyweight has a lot, but I think there are a lot of two timers...could be wrong though

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