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dutchcountry7

If "undefeated" today with redshirt loss?

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The post on Sanderson and Jenn got me thinking what would happen if in the age with video of so many matches and easy access to results of open tournaments the Sanderson career had played out. Would people still consider someone underfeated if they lost at a local open while in redshirt and then won four titles while going undefeated through years 2-5 in college?

 

It seems like so many college wrestling fans don't know about Sanderson's redshirt year but now we all follow redshirts and see their wins and losses. Everyone followed David Taylor's redshirt. It is like redshirts have come out of the shaddows.

 

What do ya think?

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 Would people still consider someone underfeated if they lost at a local open while in redshirt and then won four titles while going undefeated through years 2-5 in college?

 

What do ya think?

Yes.  They are still underfeated with losses while a redshirt, then going undefeated.  

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Didn't Steibler's losses count on his record during his true freshman reset year?

 

Depends who you ask, but if I recall correctly, he took a medical redshirt. At the time of injury he had been representing tOSU and I think that changes things up a bit. 

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I won't be shocked if we see a 2nd undefeated wrestler soon. I think a guy like a Gable Steveson or  Spencer Lee each have a good shot at it especially if they redshirt. No guarantees, obviously.

 

If these two can't get it done, then I believe the odds switch and that Cael Sanderson will be the coach of that next unbeaten wrestler. 

Edited by TBar1977

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I won't be shocked if we see a 2nd undefeated wrestler soon. I think a guy like a Gable Steveson or  Spencer Lee each have a good shot at it especially if they redshirt. No guarantees, obviously.

 

If these two can't get it done, then I believe the odds switch and that Cael Sanderson will be the coach of that next unbeaten wrestler. 

 

Time to turn in your PSU Fanboy card TBar.

 

How dare you compliment not 1 but 2 non PSU Wrestlers!

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I won't be shocked if we see a 2nd undefeated wrestler soon.

 

I would be shocked.  Cael's accomplishment isn't given nearly enough weight.  I'm sick of how people on here constantly try to downplay it.  It's only happened once for a reason. 

Edited by Frank_Rizzo

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I would be shocked.  Cael's accomplishment isn't given nearly enough weight.  I'm sick of how people on here constantly try to downplay it.  It's only happened once for a reason. 

 

 

Cael gets treated here like your namesake gets treated at a convention of the Philly Communist Party. 

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I won't be shocked if we see a 2nd undefeated wrestler soon. I think a guy like a Gable Steveson or  Spencer Lee each have a good shot at it especially if they redshirt. No guarantees, obviously.

 

If these two can't get it done, then I believe the odds switch and that Cael Sanderson will be the coach of that next unbeaten wrestler. 

 

Going undefeated over a 4 year career is incredibly hard.  It means you never had a bad day, you never got caught taking a second off or hitting a bad technique, and that you never got limited by an injury at a key time.  Lots of talented wrestlers have come through the ranks over the years but there's a reason only one guy has come through undefeated.

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Going undefeated over a 4 year career is incredibly hard.  It means you never had a bad day, you never got caught taking a second off or hitting a bad technique, and that you never got limited by an injury at a key time.  Lots of talented wrestlers have come through the ranks over the years but there's a reason only one guy has come through undefeated.

 

On top of that, did Cael sit out/not compete in any matches during his 4 years?

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I would be shocked.  Cael's accomplishment isn't given nearly enough weight.  I'm sick of how people on here constantly try to downplay it.  It's only happened once for a reason. 

It only happened once since the early 70s when they started letting guys compete as freshmen.  There were a few undefeated 3X NCAA champions when they could only compete 3 years - Yojo Uetake, D Hodge & Bill Koll did it.  I think there were others too.   Of course those guys didn't wrestle antwhere near as many matches each year. 

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It only happened once since the early 70s when they started letting guys compete as freshmen.  There were a few undefeated 3X NCAA champions when they could only compete 3 years - Yojo Uetake, D Hodge & Bill Koll did it.  I think there were others too.   Of course those guys didn't wrestle antwhere near as many matches each year. 

 

Good point - much as I love the old-timers, they wrestled far fewer matches than today's guys.  Earl McCready was the first 3x undefeated champ in any weight class and he only wrestled 25 career matches.  Dick Hutton was almost the first 4x undefeated champ, losing by a controversial referee's decision to Verne Gagne in the finals during his junior year.  His career record was 42-1-1.  By comparison, Sanderson wrestled 39, 40, 40, and 40 matches, respectively, in his four-year varsity career.

 

Some may disagree, but IMO a redshirt match is more like a football scrimmage (or pre-season game) than an official contest.  I'm also one who thinks the odds are heavily against anyone replicating Cael's feat - especially if they wrestle as many matches.  (That said, I thought I'd never see Bob Beamon's 1968 World and Olympic long jump record eclipsed - but it held up for "only" 23 years.)

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Some may disagree, but IMO a redshirt match is more like a football scrimmage (or pre-season game) than an official contest.

For who?

 

The curious thing about redshirt matches is that they are official matches and do factor into who qualifies for nationals. There is literally no downside for the redshirt and minimal at best upside for a non-redshirt when they wrestle.

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I would be shocked.  Cael's accomplishment isn't given nearly enough weight.  I'm sick of how people on here constantly try to downplay it.  It's only happened once for a reason. 

Uetake was undefeated.  He just didn't get a chance to go for 4 titles.

 

Steveson probably won't go undefeated, but I agree that he has a great shot.  He probably should be ranked #1 to start the season.  

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It is interesting to analyze redshirt losses at times, especially in comparison to the rest of someone's career. 

I believe both Robbie Waller of Oklahoma and Shawn Silvis of Central Oklahoma defeated Ben Askren by convincing scores during his redshirt year at Missouri. Matter of fact, I want to say Waller majored him. 

Then of course Cyler Sanderson's manhandling of David Taylor in Taylor's redshirt year. 

There are other examples that really stick out as well. 

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I thought he had something along the lines of 5 career losses disappear from his career record when he took the medical redshirt.

No, his first Frosh record of 5-3 counts. All the bouts were as an attached Buckeye. Just like Boroughs’ losses count from his injury year.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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No, his first Frosh record of 5-3 counts. All the bouts were as an attached Buckeye. Just like Boroughs’ losses count from his injury year.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From the Ohio State Wrestling Media Guide:

 

CAREER WINNING PERCENTAGE

(MINIMUM 40 MATCHES)

NAME .................YEARS .......W-L-T ......PCT.

1. Logan Stieber ........2012-15 .......119-3 ....... .975

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For who?

 

The curious thing about redshirt matches is that they are official matches and do factor into who qualifies for nationals. There is literally no downside for the redshirt and minimal at best upside for a non-redshirt when they wrestle.

 

Good point.  I was speaking from the standpoint of the redshirt as opposed to the non-redshirt. 

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I won't be shocked if we see a 2nd undefeated wrestler soon. I think a guy like a Gable Steveson or  Spencer Lee each have a good shot at it especially if they redshirt. No guarantees, obviously.

 

If these two can't get it done, then I believe the odds switch and that Cael Sanderson will be the coach of that next unbeaten wrestler. 

 

For as good as I think Gable is, I think it'll be a lot harder to do at HWT vs 125, especially early in his career. It's clear Gable still has plenty of body development to go through (which makes him even scarier long term imo) soI am pretty confident he'll take a loss early in his career. 

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