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wfan24

Explosive interview by Magomed Guseinov

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However, there is no East German/Ivan Drago-style Soviet program that I am aware of or could even conceive of being possible, where all top athletes are monitored and put on a standardized doping program. It's simply too fractured and disorganized.

why do you keep speculating? and what does a made up character from Rocky have to do with anything? go watch Icarus. sign up for a free month on Netflix if you don't have a subscription.

 

Rodchenkov, the guy who ran the PED program, literally explains everything, so you don't have to try and conceive how they do it. he tells you. he also helped the filmaker, an American cyclist in Colorado dope and avoid detection from Moscow, so he could do the same to any Russian athlete no matter where they trained. which does not mean every Russian wrestler did dope, but they certainly all had the opportunity. 

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You wouldn’t even have to pool resources. I am certain we could get a high level Russian coach here. Many Russians/former Soviets, and some high-level wrestlers, want to raise families here and if granted the opportunity to make a decent living sustainably, would go for it. Other than Beloglazov, another notable wrestling immigrant is wolrd champ and Olympic medalist Vougar Orujov, father of Nick and Vito Arujau. Aaron Pico’s former coach and now Helen Maroulis’s coach Valentin Kalika is another.

Unless they’re on the fraudulent take a la Mamiashvili, who wouldn’t want a real out from the Russian wrestling sht show? I think the issue is that we just haven’t asked with serious intent and a legit world-class (by modest wrestling standards) package.

Excellent post as always. I actually am quote happy with the National program at the present time. I don't see how we could get much better than what Bill Zadick has done in the past year or so. Now if things change for the worse, which I don't think and hope not, then maybe look at that option from over in Russia. But for the time being how could we not be excited for what Zadick has done with the program from Cadets all the way up to seniors. Edited by ConnorsDad

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who ever said it was every single wrestler? and how hard is it to grasp that the wrestling federation coordinated the doping and detection avoiding with Rodchenkov's lab? stop asking me for details and read the McLaren reports and watch Icarus. and you will understand how the wrestling team and every other sport was involved. it is all very clear. 

 

 

lol no, not when wfan or anyone else wants to spew bs propaganda. wfan forfeited his right to a safespace with that garbage!

 

I haven’t been on here in a looooong time. Jaroslav is 100% correct on his characterization of the Mamiashvili fiefdom and RUSADA. 

If you view what he is telling us using our understanding of amateur sport in the USA; it is hard to fathom. For instance: in the USA any kid that wants to wrestle can wrestle on his high school team or club team. Not so in the former Soviet countries. In 2003, when the Republic of Georgia won both the GR and Freestyle World titles they had a total of 2,000-2,100 wrestlers in the country. At all levels, from youth to World Team. We have 275,000 youth wrestlers. The point is: it is much easier to control. Additionally, individual rights are guaranteed by the US Constitution and as a result we see almost everything as an “individual” decision. Not so, where a Government is in charge of asset allocation.

 

Jaroslav,

 

Was Varaev questioning Mamiashvili?

Edited by br549

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why do you keep speculating? and what does a made up character from Rocky have to do with anything? go watch Icarus. sign up for a free month on Netflix if you don't have a subscription.

 

Rodchenkov, the guy who ran the PED program, literally explains everything, so you don't have to try and conceive how they do it. he tells you. he also helped the filmaker, an American cyclist in Colorado dope and avoid detection from Moscow, so he could do the same to any Russian athlete no matter where they trained. which does not mean every Russian wrestler did dope, but they certainly all had the opportunity. 

 

I am disappointed that a member of the wrestling press that I respect is displaying such a poor ability to parse or comprehend complex issues in this thread.

 

You are the one who keeps speculating.

 

Rodchenko being able to help any athlete dope, including an American cyclist, is not the same as him being in charge of literally thousands of athletes doping schedules and tests.

 

I already posted like 15 times that RUSADA probably actively helped athletes avoid detection and that the Russian Sports Ministry probably actively encouraged and provided doping regimens.

 

This is not the same as a state-run program where every athlete is in under some PED regimen from Putin and Mamiashvilli and Rodchenko down. It simply isn't realistic in the wrestling system as it exists in Russia today. It might be in a more centralized sport like athletics or weight lifting.

 

Russian athletes cheat, are encouraged to cheat, and there is a state sponsorship to cover ups and some aspects of their doping.

 

This is not the same as there being a systematic, centralized doping system like there was in East Germany where athletes were literally forced to dope by state doctors in a systematic and comprehensive and organized way.

 

Do I keep having to repeat myself Jaroslav?

 

For the record, I have watched Icarus and read parts of the McLaren report. I have also lived with national level wrestlers in Russia and seen their training and supplementation.

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"I already posted like 15 times that RUSADA probably actively helped athletes avoid detection and that the Russian Sports Ministry probably actively encouraged and provided doping regimens."

 

 

Probably? You said you read parts of the report. How can you say probably?

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"I already posted like 15 times that RUSADA probably actively helped athletes avoid detection and that the Russian Sports Ministry probably actively encouraged and provided doping regimens."

 

 

Probably? You said you read parts of the report. How can you say probably?

 

RUSADA helped cover up doping. No probably, that was a typo. Providing and encouraging PEDs is a definite for some sports, probably for others. Mandating it or having it be totally systematic and organized like East Germany? Unlikely for wrestling.

 

Go spend some time in the Caucasus and tell me how the Russian government is going to organize something to that extent in that region.

 

I get it. Icarus was a good documentary and you guys are fired up and a lot of you would like to see the USA on top for a long time. Russia has state sanctioned doping and the government is unbelievable evil and corrupt. They're just not as organized as you think they are.

Edited by manyak

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RUSADA helped cover up doping. No probably, that was a typo. Providing and encouraging PEDs is a definite for some sports, probably for others. Mandating it or having it be totally systematic and organized like East Germany? Unlikely for wrestling.

 

Go spend some time in the Caucasus and tell me how the Russian government is going to organize something to that extent in that region.

why do you keep bringing up East Germany? I certainly never did. 

 

every Olympic sport in Russia must use RUSADA, and RUSADA wasn't just helping a few random athletes out, they were covering up PED use for everyone. 

 

you say you saw Icarus so I don't know why you are still having so much trouble with this but I can try and break it down for you. 

 

Russian athlete (in the Caucasus or literally anywhere in the world) gets PEDs (from Rodchenkov and his lab or anywhere else). athlete does PEDs. RUSADA 'tests' athlete's urine. RUSADA and Rodchenkov makes sure athlete's urine doesn't test positive. Sport federation pays Rodchenkov and his lab for their service. FSB helps cover for RUSADA. Putin directs the FSB. thus we have a state sponsored doping conspiracy. 

 

how manny Russian wrestlers were using PEDs? we don't know, and frankly I don't care. but the wrestling federation and both freestyle and greco-roman wrestlers definitely participated in the scheme, and high level wrestler that wanted to use PEDs certainly had the option. based on the evidence, it doesn't appear that the usage rates for wrestlers were as high as they were for track and field and weightlifting, but they do appear substantial.  

 

you keep bringing up some complicated system that you don't believe could have taken place but, as they show in Icarus, it's all very simple. 

Edited by Jaroslav Hasek

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