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1999-Current Tournament of NCAA Champions

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McDonough didn't seem to have a game plan for Robles.  I said at the time that the Hawks should've paid more attention to the Robles - Patterson QF match. The Sooner ended up losing by the same margin as McDonough but kept it close early - trailing by only 3-5 midway through the match.  In his book, Robles said that Patterson (then only a sophomore) wrestled him smart by circling and keeping his distance.  IIRC, Patterson circled and stuffed Robles' head down - allowing him to spin behind for a TD. 

 

Patterson was a solid wrestler with a 107-32 career record - just never broke through to be an elite 125-pounder.  He was a 2x Big 12 champ and 4x NCAA qualifier.  His only AA came the year he wrestled Robles - where he placed 7th.  

 

Patterson was one of those R12 type guys. He could keep it close against nearly anybody though, except Megaludis definitely had his number.

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This is very good.  I think the version of Caldwell at 149 was probably the best.  Still don't think Cox would beat Sanderson at 197.  In fact, I think very unlikely.  I think Robles is a goo pick, too.  

 

Agree on Sanderson. I think Cael would've handily whipped Cox.

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125- McDonough - Iowa (JR 2012)

133- Juergens - Iowa (SR 2001)

141- Stieber - Ohio State (SR 2015)

149- Metcalf - Iowa (SR 2010)

157- Dake - Cornell (JR 2012)

165- Perry - Iowa (SR 2008)

174- Askren - Missouri (SR 2007)

184- Ruth - Penn State (SR 2014)

197- Sanderson - Iowa State (SR 2002) 

285- Snyder - Ohio State (JR 2017) 

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Definitely not a Soph or JR Cael.  Probably not Frosh either.  A senior Ruth lost to a Freshman Dean, and beat him in a close match in the Finals that year.  Dean has been exposed recently.  

to be accurate they met in NCAA semis, as the 2 and 3 seeds. and not sure I agree with Dean being exposed, still had an awesome collegiate career, great folk style wrestler.  

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125- McDonough - Iowa (JR 2012)

133- Juergens - Iowa (SR 2001)

141- Stieber - Ohio State (SR 2015)

149- Metcalf - Iowa (SR 2010)

157- Dake - Cornell (JR 2012)

165- Perry - Iowa (SR 2008)

174- Askren - Missouri (SR 2007)

184- Ruth - Penn State (SR 2014)

197- Sanderson - Iowa State (SR 2002)

285- Snyder - Ohio State (JR 2017)

By any chance are you an Iowa fan? Lol

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I think the length would have given Zain fits.  

I agree the length would be an issue in neutral.  Sometimes Zain dives from so far away that it would be a big problem with a guy that long. 

 

But I watched Caldwell lose multiple matches to Will Rowe because of physicality and issues on bottom.  Caldwell had a peak that maybe no 149 of the last 2 decades could match, but he touched that peak so rarely, and his body wouldn't hold up to keep him on that peak when he did touch it.  I think Zain would have broken Caldwell with a single period of top wrestling.  

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I agree the length would be an issue in neutral.  Sometimes Zain dives from so far away that it would be a big problem with a guy that long. 

 

But I watched Caldwell lose multiple matches to Will Rowe because of physicality and issues on bottom.  Caldwell had a peak that maybe no 149 of the last 2 decades could match, but he touched that peak so rarely, and his body wouldn't hold up to keep him on that peak when he did touch it.  I think Zain would have broken Caldwell with a single period of top wrestling.  

 

Perhaps.  I saw him totally dismantle Metcalf who was my favorite wrestler at the time.  When Caldwell was ahead, I wasn't too worried as Jenkins was, too, the year before.  But Caldwell didn't break, and he was more talented than Metcalf.  

 

Metcalf was my favorite wrestler at the time, but I knew it wasn't a fluke after the match--Caldwell had more upside.  I think that Zain is stingier than Metcalf and much better on top--he wins IMO in this hypothetical match.  Both are beasts in Neutral, but I think Zain better.  

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Perhaps.  I saw him totally dismantle Metcalf who was my favorite wrestler at the time.  When Caldwell was ahead, I wasn't too worried as Jenkins was, too, the year before.  But Caldwell didn't break, and he was more talented than Metcalf.  

 

Metcalf was my favorite wrestler at the time, but I knew it wasn't a fluke after the match--Caldwell had more upside.  I think that Zain is stingier than Metcalf and much better on top--he wins IMO in this hypothetical match.  Both are beasts in Neutral, but I think Zain better.  

I think Metcalf was so good at what he did it was easy to overlook how 1 dimensional he was.  It doesn't mean he wasn't great, even all-time great, it just means that if you could beat him at that one dimension he had no other path to victory.  I remember in the Caldwell match I kept thinking Metcalf would come back and it kept getting worse.  The more Metcalf tried the same game (pressure forward), Caldwell just made him pay over and over.  

 

But Caldwell had big holes if you didn't let the match be about slicks in neutral (just like Metcalf did if you didn't let him put you on your back foot).  I don't think Zain could beat Caldwell in neutral, but if he played it smart I think he could get out of the first no worse than 2-1.  And I think as soon as he's on top that match is basically over.  

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someone with time on their hands should put together a "pickem" style bracket, random draw style, of all individual champs, by weight class. then, we can vote on the winners of each match, and the results will show who the best hypothetically is, fo finality's sake.

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Great topic

125 - 2002 Abas over 2011 Robles in the final 

133 - 1999 Guerrero over 2012 Stieber in a thriller

141 - 2014 Stieber over 2012 Russell 

149 - 2009 Caldwell over 2017 Retherford. Side notes: Caldwell knocks off 2008 Metcalf in a thrilling semi while Retherford wins by inj default over 2006 Schlatter after trailing most of the bout. Dustin just could not stay healthy. 

157 - 2012 Dake over 2009 Burroughs razor thin, 5-4 type bout.   Riding time the difference.   

165 - 2011 Burroughs over 2013 Dake in a controversial buzzer beater score for the OT win. 

174 - 2005 Pendleton over 2007 Askren (Ben's Kryptonite) 

184 - 2001 Cael over 2009 Herbert 

197 - 2002 Cael over 2010 Varner

HVY - 1999 Neal over 2007 Konrad 

Edited by Cletus_Tucker

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Great topic

 

125 - 2002 Abas over 2011 Robles in the final 

 

133 - 1999 Guerrero over 2012 Stieber in a thriller

 

141 - 2014 Stieber over 2012 Russell 

 

149 - 2009 Caldwell over 2017 Retherford. Side notes: Caldwell knocks off 2008 Metcalf in a thrilling semi while Retherford wins by inj default over 2006 Schlatter after trailing most of the bout. Dustin just could not stay healthy. 

 

157 - 2012 Dake over 2009 Burroughs razor thin, 5-4 type bout.   Riding time the difference.   

 

165 - 2011 Burroughs over 2013 Dake in a controversial buzzer beater score for the OT win. 

 

174 - 2005 Pendleton over 2007 Askren (Ben's Kryptonite) 

 

184 - 2001 Cael over 2009 Herbert 

 

197 - 2002 Cael over 2010 Varner

 

HVY - 1999 Neal over 2007 Konrad 

 

I would pay an entire months wages to see the championship finals you have here.  Well done sir.

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My coaching staff at Monarch High in Boulder Valley Public Schools drove all the way to Oklahoma to watch the OSU vs Minnesota dual where freshman Schlatter beat defending NCAA Champ Espo.  I'd forgotten just how dominant Dustin was that year.  I went to my only Big 10 to watch him in Bloomington.  Then I won the pool by calling that his opponent would not score in the championship finals.  Hope he's doing well.

 

We are in rare air in my opinion.  We've had and are continuing to have amazing talent coming through.  There have been many, many multiple NCAA Champions, who could never think of getting a World medal, but now our champs are at a level of quality that I feel we can be a two world medal per weight type of wrestling talent at our national team level.  I know I'm redundant but whoever wins the man of the year this year should be the mastermind behind what's going on. These are good times, and looking to hold steady or improve if our jr and cadet team results are any indication.

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Peso - Dustin wrestled at a level that season that is right up there with the very best I've seen.   As a frosh, you mentioned he beat Espo.   Unless my memory is failing me, he majored the Oklahoma State Cowboy.     It was shocking to see the composed frosh just go right out there and work his magic.    Along the way he also beat the Iowa guy a time or two, and just put on a magnificent year long display of technical and physical brilliance.   His championship season is one of my favorites.  

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Alright... I'll play.. but this is gonna take a while... Starting at 125, your eligible participants are:

 

Darian Cruz

Nico Megaludis

Nathan Tomasello

Jesse Delgado

Matt McDonough

Anthony Robles

Troy Nickerson

Angel Escobedo

Paul Donahoe

Joe Dubuque

Jason Powell

Travis Lee

Stephen Abas

Jeremy Hunter

 

Simple bracketology, in order (cause I don't have time to do otherwise):

Megaludis > Cruz

Tomasello > Delgado

Robles > McDonough

Nickerson > Escobedo

Dubuque > Donahoe

Lee > Powell

Abas > Hunter

 

Round 2 (Quarters):

Tomasello > Megaludis

Robles > Nickerson

Dubuque > Lee

Abas - BYE

 

Round 3 (Semis):

Robles > Tomasello

Abas > Dubuque

 

FINALS:

Abas > Robles

 

Thoughts?

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Well done.   The only change I'd make is Lee over Dubuque.    

 

I HATE that Abas with the 2nd round bye.  I would want to see him get as much mat time as possible, he was that fun to watch. 

Well done.   The only change I'd make is Lee over Dubuque.    Same final and result I have my prediction.  

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Alright... I'll play.. but this is gonna take a while... Starting at 125, your eligible participants are:

 

Darian Cruz

Nico Megaludis

Nathan Tomasello

Jesse Delgado

Matt McDonough

Anthony Robles

Troy Nickerson

Angel Escobedo

Paul Donahoe

Joe Dubuque

Jason Powell

Travis Lee

Stephen Abas

Jeremy Hunter

 

Simple bracketology, in order (cause I don't have time to do otherwise):

Megaludis > Cruz

Tomasello > Delgado

Robles > McDonough

Nickerson > Escobedo

Dubuque > Donahoe

Lee > Powell

Abas > Hunter

 

Round 2 (Quarters):

Tomasello > Megaludis

Robles > Nickerson

Dubuque > Lee

Abas - BYE

 

Round 3 (Semis):

Robles > Tomasello

Abas > Dubuque

 

FINALS:

Abas > Robles

 

Thoughts?

 

So you didnt seed or randomize seeding and filled the bracket straight down according to year and eliminated different versions of repeat wrestlers?

This would prevent the possibility of a wrestler facing a different version of themselves... 

 

Over all nice job.

 

I drafted this out with random seeding and all versions of wrestlers entered..

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7GhikL1sUCyNWNyLS1MZDg4UkU

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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So you didnt seed or randomize seeding and filled the bracket straight down according to year and eliminated different versions of repeat wrestlers?

This would prevent the possibility of a wrestler facing a different version of themselves... 

 

Over all nice job.

 

I drafted this out with random seeding and all versions of wrestlers entered..

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7GhikL1sUCyNWNyLS1MZDg4UkU

 

 

Escobedo over Delgado

 

Delgado over Danahoe

 

Abas over hunter

 

Abas over Lee

 

Robles over Nickerson

 

Abas over Cruz

 

Mcdonough over Tomasello

 

Debuque over Mcdonough

 

2nd round

 

Escobedo over Delgado

 

Abas over Abas 

 

Abas over Robles

 

Mcdonough over Debuque

 

semi's

 

Abas over escobedo

 

Abas over Debuque

 

 

 

Abas 

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This is about the most subjective thing I have seen in a while - but it is fun - so have at it!

 

The only way this made sense to me was to limit a guy to one weight class. Given that, here goes:

 

125 - Anthony Robles - ASU

133 - Jordan Oliver - Ok St

141 - Logan Stieber - Oh St

149 - Zain Retherford - PSU

157 - Kyle Dake - Cornell

165 - David Taylor - PSU

174 - Ed Ruth - PSU

184 - Cael Sanderson - ISU

197 - J'Den Cox - Mizz

285 - Kyle Snyder - Oh St

 

The 3 guys I left out who were the hardest to leave out were Askren at 174, Varner at 197 and Konrad at 285.

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125 - Robles. His senior year was a thing of magic. Despite all adversity he absolutely dominated the field. McDonough was a stud and got completely dismantled.

 

133 - Garrett. His senior year was something special. Despite cory Clark "keeping it close" (piss poor officiating) he was league's above the field. His athleticism was something to behold.

 

141 - stieber. The man. 4x titles and Hodge speaks for itself. A suspect win over Oliver excluded.

 

149 - d. Caldwell. Caldwell at his peak was poetry on the mat. I don't think anyone beats him his junior year (or senior without injury. Dake, count yourself lucky). Wouldn't be surprised if he bonused the zain train..

 

157 - dake. The 4x champ needs a spot. He gets 157 because I think it was just true college weight and he's surpassed by...

 

165 - Burroughs. The man, the legend, the beast. 5x world champ and winning in the world stage right out of college.

 

174 - askren. A true monster on the mat. I think junior year askren gets past his nemesis, senior year version is on another level.

 

184 - cael. He needs a place on the list. A real force but I give 197 to...

 

197 - Cox. Three time champ (with no shirt) and 2x world bronze medalist before he graduates. Honestly, more impressed with his career while in college over cael, and I think he beats Carl as a sr.

 

285 - Snyder. I don't know the other guy, but this list isn't compete without the best p4p wrestler in at least a decade.

 

For fun, team: Penn State. Nobody can deny the dominance that is Penn State. Cael is on track to surpass gable (and I think he does) as best [wrestling] coach ever at the college level.

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