Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
lu1979

New scrambling rules & Finishing TDs

Recommended Posts

I was just listening to the latest FRL podcast on Flo.  They had Ben Askren on as a guest and had a very interesting discussion on the new scrambling rule. 

 

Ben Askren made a very good point vis a vis the scrambling situation.  He said that this rule would help scramblers and that they will figure out ways to score by taking advantage of the way the rule is written.  Just think about how hard it can be finishing a crack down shot or if you shoot a high crotch and the guy tries to drag by and turn the corner on you.  In both those cases you now have a new way to score.  Just force your opponents back past 90 deg for 3 seconds and hold it there.  Does that new rule work in any position or just when the other guy is holding a leg or ankle? 

 

According to the rules video it would apply to any position: Quote "A wrestler in the neutral position who exposes his shoulders at less than 90 Degrees will be considered in the danger zone and a count will commence"

 

There are a lot more options for scoring a takedown now that won't require the level of control that was needed previously.  This rule is going to have a huge affect on how kids try to finish shots.   

Edited by lu1979

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am bumping this topic up.  No one seems to want to discuss this but this could have a dramatic effect on how matches are won and lost this year.  There is a lot of coaching and prep work that should be being done right now to prepare for the ramifications this rule change is going to bring to the neutral game in NCAA wrestling.  

Edited by lu1979

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a reminder to officials: 90 degrees is straight up and down (ie. top shoulder directly above bottom shoulder). 45 degrees (ie. near-fall criteria) is halfway between 90 degrees and 0 degrees (which, of course, is the fall criteria).

Wouldnt want to be a official with these rules.Its gonna make scramblers even more dangerous theres gonna be some crazy matches this year.Before people bitched when one guy had 3 takedowns to 1 takedown but won the match on intentional escape points.Now were gonna see matches where 1 guy gets 4 takedowns to his opponents 0 with 15 to go they get in a scramble for 2&4 at the buzzer and now the guy with no takedowns with 15 to go steals the match. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a reminder to officials: 90 degrees is straight up and down (ie. top shoulder directly above bottom shoulder). 45 degrees (ie. near-fall criteria) is halfway between 90 degrees and 0 degrees (which, of course, is the fall criteria).

Also, the sky is blue...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldnt want to be a official with these rules.Its gonna make scramblers even more dangerous theres gonna be some crazy matches this year.Before people bitched when one guy had 3 takedowns to 1 takedown but won the match on intentional escape points.Now were gonna see matches where 1 guy gets 4 takedowns to his opponents 0 with 15 to go they get in a scramble for 2&4 at the buzzer and now the guy with no takedowns with 15 to go steals the match. 

No stealing going on here.  If a guy can hold an unwilling opponent's shoulders to the mat for 7 consecutive seconds, he earns a TD and NF.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to yell to them that they needed a new protractor.

 

My high school coach was a math teacher and carried one in his pocket. We got docked a team point because a ref told him "he was clearly at 60 degrees" when arguing back points and the coach threw the protractor on the mat and told him to show him on the protractor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My high school coach was a math teacher and carried one in his pocket. We got docked a team point because a ref told him "he was clearly at 60 degrees" when arguing back points and the coach threw the protractor on the mat and told him to show him on the protractor.

During the bout?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just listening to the latest FRL podcast on Flo.  They had Ben Askren on as a guest and had a very interesting discussion on the new scrambling rule. 

 

Ben Askren made a very good point vis a vis the scrambling situation.  He said that this rule would help scramblers and that they will figure out ways to score by taking advantage of the way the rule is written.  Just think about how hard it can be finishing a crack down shot or if you shoot a high crotch and the guy tries to drag by and turn the corner on you.  In both those cases you now have a new way to score.  Just force your opponents back past 90 deg for 3 seconds and hold it there.  Does that new rule work in any position or just when the other guy is holding a leg or ankle? 

 

According to the rules video it would apply to any position: Quote "A wrestler in the neutral position who exposes his shoulders at less than 90 Degrees will be considered in the danger zone and a count will commence"

 

There are a lot more options for scoring a takedown now that won't require the level of control that was needed previously.  This rule is going to have a huge affect on how kids try to finish shots.   

 

I agree that this rule change is going to have a pretty big impact on scrambles this year but I'm not sure how much the "funky" guys will benefit.  A lot of their stuff involved putting themselves in seemingly precarious situations but using superior body awareness to end up on top and/or with their opponent on their back. And now that precarious situation is often going to mean they'd have to give up a TD and possibly back points.  This rule change was aimed at (and will greatly impact) the "grab an ankle and hang on" people but I am worried that guys who actually are using funk to set up offense could end up as collateral damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scramblers like Askren who keep moving and wrestling through positions will be fine, and may, as Askren said, be able to take advantage of this by scoring "takedowns" that do not meet the previous definition of control. But guys like Heil that hang on and lay on their backs will have to adjust their strategy. I believe the intent of this rule is specifically to remove those kinds of positions as the guy will now have to bail out, rather than hang on, only inches from being pinned, waiting for a stalemate. As well as leg pass positions when a guy dives to an ankle and lays on his side rather than working up (that guy will have to make sure he is not passed 90 degrees). But it will be interesting to see what unintended consequences this leads to. No doubt there will be some very controversial outcomes due to this change.

Edited by Crotalus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Refs are going to be very slow to call it.  Its going to take a 3 count for them to even start.  They will do it that way to avoid conflict with coaches because everyone will see that it is egregious, and it it will be awfully hard to argue that the ref started the count too late.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about draping over opponent’s back and grabbing feet. Head on mat, shoulders near mat. That will not happen as much I figure.

 

That position deserved points for guy underneath trying to position shoulders for neutral fall. Very glad guy draped over will now likely bail.

Edited by nom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Refs are going to be very slow to call it. Its going to take a 3 count for them to even start. They will do it that way to avoid conflict with coaches because everyone will see that it is egregious, and it it will be awfully hard to argue that the ref started the count too late.

This is likely going to happen. Though if this happens in an NCAA final with video review, they may be forced to make "egregious" calls that they don't want to make if the tape is clear.

Edited by bigmik

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just listening to the latest FRL podcast on Flo.  They had Ben Askren on as a guest and had a very interesting discussion on the new scrambling rule. 

 

Ben Askren made a very good point vis a vis the scrambling situation.  He said that this rule would help scramblers and that they will figure out ways to score by taking advantage of the way the rule is written.  Just think about how hard it can be finishing a crack down shot or if you shoot a high crotch and the guy tries to drag by and turn the corner on you.  In both those cases you now have a new way to score.  Just force your opponents back past 90 deg for 3 seconds and hold it there.  Does that new rule work in any position or just when the other guy is holding a leg or ankle? 

 

According to the rules video it would apply to any position: Quote "A wrestler in the neutral position who exposes his shoulders at less than 90 Degrees will be considered in the danger zone and a count will commence"

 

There are a lot more options for scoring a takedown now that won't require the level of control that was needed previously.  This rule is going to have a huge affect on how kids try to finish shots.   

 

I think it'll help scramblers like Nolf, but probably not Heil so much.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×