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Hodge Trophy Contenders (link)


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#1 TBar1977

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 02:06 AM

1. Zain Train

2. Kyle Snyder

3. Jason Nolf

4. Bo Nickal

5. I Mar

 

Honorable mentions also listed in this article from theopenmat.com.

 

http://news.theopenm...ge-trophy/64400


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#2 Housebuye

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 03:11 AM

I hope Snyder gets it. I know by the strict interpretation he is likely 3rd, but Zain got his and Nolf will still have the following season for his.

If wish there was a way for iMar to get it, assuming he goes undefeated. 1,1,2,1 with two total losses is one of the best performances ever on Folk. He also beat other potentially legendary guys. Nolf will certainly be on those lists, and Massa is a likely 4 time AA and at least one time champ. He also has two wins over Cenzo, and if he doesn’t lose this season, likely two more. Cenzo could very well be a multiple time champ too.

Wrestling is nuts right now. 4 guys going for their 3rd title, 8 champs returning from last year, multiple world team members, an Olympic and world (2x) champ, 3 guys from the same team going for their 4th AA honors, a team with 5 returning champs, two guys who were incredibly close to going for their 4th, and that just scratches the surface.

There are going to be guys who normally would be big favorites for the Hodge who aren’t really in the conversation.
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#3 MSU158

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 04:40 AM

I am sorry, but if you are intentionally wrestling an abbreviated schedule, you have no business winning an award based mainly on how you performed during a whole season.  Someone that made weight(although that doesn't matter so much for Snyder) every time, did all the traveling, risked the injuries, fought through any illnesses to get to a 35ish-0 record simply doesn't compare to a 15ish-0 cherry picked season.

 

If you want to add a best overall World accomplishments during a College Season, he is the man.  But, you are actually doing a disservice to guys like Retherford, Nolf and maybe IMar if they wrestled most/all of their team's competitions and inevitably have stronger bonus/pin rates, but you give the College award to a guy because of what  he accomplished Internationally more so than what he does for tOSU............


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#4 Perry

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 05:06 AM

I'd take 3 world titles over Hodge any day of the week. Snyder is out of the running based on msu's comments above. He will, however, amass what I consider to be the most outstanding resume while in college and it's not even close there.

#5 bigmik

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 05:10 AM

I am sorry, but if you are intentionally wrestling an abbreviated schedule, you have no business winning an award based mainly on how you performed during a whole season. Someone that made weight(although that doesn't matter so much for Snyder) every time, did all the traveling, risked the injuries, fought through any illnesses to get to a 35ish-0 record simply doesn't compare to a 15ish-0 cherry picked season.

If you want to add a best overall World accomplishments during a College Season, he is the man. But, you are actually doing a disservice to guys like Retherford, Nolf and maybe IMar if they wrestled most/all of their team's competitions and inevitably have stronger bonus/pin rates, but you give the College award to a guy because of what he accomplished Internationally more so than what he does for tOSU............

Accomplished against the best wrestlers on the planet while being recognized as the #1 p4p wrestler in the world. As far as I'm aware, there is nothing in the Hodge criteria that excludes international results from being used in the decision making process. There is a reason that Snyder was a finalist for the Sullivan Award and no other collegiate wrestler was in the running. I believe Snyder received the most votes of any male this past award season. I say they should at least share the award if Snyder completes an undefeated championship season. Snyder is probably the guy who would win most consistently if the NCAA were a true national championship tournament.

Edited by bigmik, 04 October 2017 - 06:04 AM.


#6 bigmik

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 05:12 AM

I'd take 3 world titles over Hodge any day of the week. Snyder is out of the running based on msu's comments above. He will, however, amass what I consider to be the most outstanding resume while in college and it's not even close there.


Maybe he has a chance. He did finish third in the voting last year. Maybe those who voted for Cox will give their vote to Snyder this year.

Edited by bigmik, 04 October 2017 - 05:30 AM.


#7 JeanGuy

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 05:23 AM

The Hodge is to go to the most outstanding college wrestler of the year. This is a collegiate award and should be based on collegiate performance in my book.

 

It will be unfortunate that Snyder, a generational talent, will not win the award but there are always consequences to decisions. Today everybody wants to have their cake and eat it too. Life doesn't work like that.

 

Now get off of my lawn!!


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#8 bigmik

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 05:34 AM

The Hodge is to go to the most outstanding college wrestler of the year. This is a collegiate award and should be based on collegiate performance in my book.
 
It will be unfortunate that Snyder, a generational talent, will not win the award but there are always consequences to decisions. Today everybody wants to have their cake and eat it too. Life doesn't work like that.
 
Now get off of my lawn!!


And many people would say that Snyder is the most outstanding college wrestler. I would say that. How many guys in college right now would be favored to win a true folkstyle national champion consistently? It seems like Snyder sticks out like a sore thumb if the tournaments are made as tough as possible.

#9 JeanGuy

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 05:38 AM

And many people would say that Snyder is the most outstanding college wrestler. I would say that. How many guys in college right now would be favored to win a true folkstyle national champion consistently? It seems like Snyder sticks out like a sore thumb if the tournaments are made as tough as possible.

I read outstanding as performance not ability.

 

I don't think anyone will argue that Snyder is not the best wrestler that is in college, but will his 2017-18 performance in college be the most outstanding?



#10 bigmik

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 05:48 AM

I read outstanding as performance not ability.

I don't think anyone will argue that Snyder is not the best wrestler that is in college, but will his 2017-18 performance in college be the most outstanding?

If he goes undefeated while wrestling his best, that would likely be the case. Well, of course, that depends on the definition of "outstanding" that we are using. Outstanding results don't necessarily require outstanding performances. Kyle would likely display a higher level of wrestling skill than anyone else while on the mat. It would be like if Cael came out in his senior year and went 15-0; there still would be a sense in which he remains the most outstanding with so "few" matches.

Edited by bigmik, 04 October 2017 - 05:58 AM.


#11 PRyan2012

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 05:54 AM

Is there anyway Kyle wrestles a full season. He is P4P #1 in the world right now. Why not finish your last college season cleaning up all the awards. If he wrestles a full season I think he wins it. Remember how this affected Varner's career not winning it! :-)


Edited by PRyan2012, 04 October 2017 - 05:55 AM.


#12 headshuck

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 05:55 AM

Same arguments, new year. I wish I had started the “Headshuck Most Valuable Wrestler” award 15 years ago. Might have a sponsor by now.
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#13 MSU158

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 05:58 AM

Accomplished against the best wrestlers on the planet while being recognized as the #1 p4p wrestler in the world. As far as I'm aware, there is nothing in the Hodge that excludes international results from being excluded in the decision making process. There is a reason that Snyder was a finalist for the Sullivan Award and no other collegiate wrestler was in the running. I believe Snyder received the most votes of any male this past award season. I say they should at least share the award if Snyder completes an undefeated championship season. Snyder is probably the guy who would win most consistently if the NCAA were a true national championship tournament.

Methinks you got your excludes messed up in the manner of a double negative.  One as all knowing as yourself should not make such an error.

 

 

1 KEY component:  He is recognized as the best in a DIFFERENT style of wrestling at a different weight class.  Also, I covered, almost exactly your argument, by creating a different award in my 2nd paragraph.  Finally, the Hodge isn't solely about who you think is the best.  A major factor is how dominant you were the entire season.  Not only will Snyder miss a large portion of the season, he will fall way short on the most dominant category of Falls(which is a major reason why it was named after Hodge in the 1st place).


Edited by MSU158, 04 October 2017 - 06:04 AM.


#14 bigmik

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 06:00 AM

Methinks you got your excludes messed up in the manner of a double negative.  One as all knowing as yourself should not make such an error.


Good catch.

#15 jchapman

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 06:14 AM

Guys, the Hodge Trophy has been awarded to a D2 wrester and D3 wrestler with multiple losses.  Anything goes.



#16 Plasmodium

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 06:15 AM

There couldn't be a more vague or poorly worded definition for this award.

<<<

The WIN Magazine/Culture House Dan Hodge Trophy, presented by ASICS, is considered the Heisman Trophy for amateur wrestling and has been presented to the nation’s best wrestler since 1995.

>>>

Kyle Snyder.  JB and Helen Maroulis have an argument.

 

<<<

Criteria for the award includes a wrestler’s record, number of pins, dominance on the mat, past credentials, quality of competition, sportsmanship/citizenship and heart.

>>>

Um.  Kyle Snyder?



#17 bigmik

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 06:17 AM

Guys, the Hodge Trophy has been awarded to a D2 wrester and D3 wrestler with multiple losses.  Anything goes.


And a D1 champ that was pinned in the first period.
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#18 cjc007

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 07:01 AM

And a D1 champ that was pinned in the first period.

While not giving it to an undefeated NCAA Champ.




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#19 MSU158

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 07:14 AM

And a D1 champ that was pinned in the first period.

Let's not ignore that that was a unique season where only 1 DI guy was undefeated in a very thin weight class and he won in a very boring and somewhat ugly fashion.  Now, I will say that I wouldn't have had an issue with Gavin winning it over Metcalf. But, they gave Metcalf a ton of credit for, other than that 1 loss, dominating a very strong weight class.  Also, without knowing that Caldwell would beat him again, that loss was taken as a fluke "catch" pin and was not given much credit at the time.



#20 headshuck

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 07:20 AM

Come on, he wasn’t pinned
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