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https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2017/October/10/Haught-Moore-Woodward-Bourbon-NWCA-All-Star-Classic

 

I predict that Moore will NOT pin Haught again.  Instead, probably more of a 15-6 MD by Moore.  

 

Unless something happens (i.e. he becomes complacent), Moore trajectory, post High School, is about as impressive as anyone I can remember in a long time.  A "decent" recruit out of a super small Ohio school.  Won a State Championship.  Redshirts, and then absolutely explodes, nearly beating a "living legend" in Cox, and placing 3rd.  Then... goes onto Jr. Worlds after wrestling freestyle very little, brings home a bronze with relative ease (his injury in the match he lost could explain the loss).  

 

He's my pick to be "heir apparent" to the Boy King, and will prove it resoundingly against Haught.  My two cents... what say you?

 

 

I think Haught can keep it close if he can manage to not get pinned this time.  He's pretty good on his feet and he's strong.  He did take down Snyder a couple times early in Snyder's true freshman year and lost a close match. 

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Moore's improvement has been insane, and completely unexpected, even by Moore himself.  If you listen to any of Moore's interviews it's almost as if he doesn't really know what happened... he had a decent redshirt year, then just sort of hung around the wrestling room in the summer getting beat up by Kyle.  Next thing you know, he makes a junior world team with no prior freestyle experience out of nowhere, then takes 3rd as a freshman at NCAA's, then junior world bronze.  

 

The exciting thing is that watching him wrestle, there is still an insane amount of room for improvement.  A lot of his technique isn't particularly polished, although being a little unorthodox does work in his favor at times, and he's been relatively small for the weight.    

 

That said, it's impossible to project someone's ceiling to be above Snyder's.  Maybe he can catch Cox at 92kg down the road, but we haven't seen the best of Cox either just yet.  

I could be wrong about this but I think Moore is going to look a bit like a 197 lb. Jason Nolf this year.  His attack rate is very high and I think he is going to be teching a lot of people this year.   I think he is capable of dominating even the other very good guys (Haught, Weigel , etc) with his pace and style.

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Now that Moore is a known commodity, guys will wrestle not to lose. It happened with J'den Cox, and with as high of a weight as 197, it's harder to score points when someone is content to be defensive the whole match, than at say 157 lbs. Granted I think Moore's style is more of a higher pace than Cox, I just think he's going to be frustrated this year wrestling a lot of guys

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Now that Moore is a known commodity, guys will wrestle not to lose. It happened with J'den Cox, and with as high of a weight as 197, it's harder to score points when someone is content to be defensive the whole match, than at say 157 lbs. Granted I think Moore's style is more of a higher pace than Cox, I just think he's going to be frustrated this year wrestling a lot of guys

Maybe. Even wrestling defensively, he will wear guys down.

 

There are plenty of examples from last season that had a close first or even second period, and then he blew it wide open in the third.

 

Even happened to Nolf a few times, although by the second he usually was able to dominate.

 

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

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Moore's improvement has been insane, and completely unexpected, even by Moore himself.  If you listen to any of Moore's interviews it's almost as if he doesn't really know what happened... he had a decent redshirt year, then just sort of hung around the wrestling room in the summer getting beat up by Kyle.  Next thing you know, he makes a junior world team with no prior freestyle experience out of nowhere, then takes 3rd as a freshman at NCAA's, then junior world bronze.  

 

The exciting thing is that watching him wrestle, there is still an insane amount of room for improvement.  A lot of his technique isn't particularly polished, although being a little unorthodox does work in his favor at times, and he's been relatively small for the weight.    

 

That said, it's impossible to project someone's ceiling to be above Snyder's.  Maybe he can catch Cox at 92kg down the road, but we haven't seen the best of Cox either just yet.  

 

Totally agree.  Superficially speaking, based on all the tape/live matches I've seen, I do believe that Cox is much closer to the "best version of himself" than Moore is.  To your point, there are areas of Moore's game that tough to watch.  On the flipside, there are areas of his game that should become "archetypcal" for their usage (that double leg inside trip is beeyootifull).  

 

I too wouldn't get overly rambunctious and place his ceiling into the stratosphere, but, based on the competition at 197 this year, I do believe (just like lu1979) that he will behave and have results that are very "Nolf-like" for the foreseeable future.  I'm more excited to see how his freestyle career develops, especially with 92kg being an option.  My gut tells me that this will be absolutely perfect for Moore, and will allow him to develop/blossom further, with confidence (as he progresses past Cox in the next 6-18 months).

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Totally agree.  Superficially speaking, based on all the tape/live matches I've seen, I do believe that Cox is much closer to the "best version of himself" than Moore is.  To your point, there are areas of Moore's game that tough to watch.  On the flipside, there are areas of his game that should become "archetypcal" for their usage (that double leg inside trip is beeyootifull).  

 

I too wouldn't get overly rambunctious and place his ceiling into the stratosphere, but, based on the competition at 197 this year, I do believe (just like lu1979) that he will behave and have results that are very "Nolf-like" for the foreseeable future.  I'm more excited to see how his freestyle career develops, especially with 92kg being an option.  My gut tells me that this will be absolutely perfect for Moore, and will allow him to develop/blossom further, with confidence (as he progresses past Cox in the next 6-18 months).

I think he wrecks the field for the most part.  I guess I could see Downey or Miklus giving him trouble.  I could see Weigel using the threat of top wrestling to keep it just shy of a major.  But I think he wrecks 197 this year with a near 90% bonus rate.

 

I don't think he beats Cox in the next 18 months unless Cox stops training for a while or is hurt.  Margin of victory against inferior wrestlers is not a good way to predict matches between elite guys.  Cox owns that weight class through at least the next Olympics if he really wants to.  

Edited by boconnell

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I think he wrecks the field for the most part.  I guess I could see Downey or Miklus giving him trouble.  I could see Weigel using the threat of top wrestling to keep it just shy of a major.  But I think he wrecks 197 this year with a near 90% bonus rate.

 

I don't think he beats Cox in the next 18 months unless Cox stops training for a while or is hurt.  Margin of victory against inferior wrestlers is not a good way to predict matches between elite guys.  Cox owns that weight class through at least the next Olympics if he really wants to.  

 

I may be wrong,but Moore probably had more bonus points than Cox last year anyway, didn't he?

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After he has nothing more to prove, which is arguably now, Snyder may shift focus to the cage. It is no secret that he wants to fight in the UFC eventually. That may provide the necessary opening for Moore and all the other guys who are rooting for the UFC.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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After he has nothing more to prove, which is arguably now, Snyder may shift focus to the cage. It is no secret that he wants to fight in the UFC eventually. That may provide the necessary opening for Moore and all the other guys who are rooting for the UFC.

Blasphemy.  People said this about Burroughs too.  The reality is that the very best in this sport enjoy a life better than 99% in the the UFC.  Snyder made 250K from the olympics, he gets 50K every time he wins worlds, and he'll get 500K if he wins the olympics next time around.  He (and Burroughs) are also very well positioned to go onto coaching if they so choose, or public speaking, or a lot of things. He will also get an endorsement deal the second he graduates from tOSU. Unless you go the Askren route and only fight amateurs, the huge risk of brain damage from UFC doesn't make sense for these two. Somebody needs to just show him an interview with present day Chuck Liddell...That should end thoughts of fighting in the UFC for anyone who doesn't really need the $$. 

 

However, for people lower on the ladder or even on the team but not good enough to win gold (Cormier, Lawal, Askren, Hendricks) it is a good option.  It can also be a very bad option though (Rosholt, Konrad, Lance Palmer, etc etc).  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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Blasphemy.  People said this about Burroughs too.  The reality is that the very best in this sport enjoy a life better than 99% in the the UFC.  Snyder made 250K from the olympics, he gets 50K every time he wins worlds, and he'll get 500K if he wins the olympics next time around.  He (and Burroughs) are also very well positioned to go onto coaching if they so choose, or public speaking, or a lot of things. He will also get an endorsement deal the second he graduates from tOSU. Unless you go the Askren route and only fight amateurs, the huge risk of brain damage from UFC doesn't make sense for these two. Somebody needs to just show him an interview with present day Chuck Liddell...That should end thoughts of fighting in the UFC for anyone who doesn't really need the $$. 

 

However, for people lower on the ladder or even on the team but not good enough to win gold (Cormier, Lawal, Askren, Hendricks) it is a good option.  It can also be a very bad option though (Rosholt, Konrad, Lance Palmer, etc etc).

 

Like you said hes pretty financially set. Itll really boil down to whether he wants to fight or not. He could always take a few fights and retire to coaching or whatever else you've laid out. Its nice to see a wrestler have so many options.

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Unless you go the Askren route and only fight amateurs, the huge risk of brain damage from UFC doesn't make sense for these two. Somebody needs to just show him an interview with present day Chuck Liddell...That should end thoughts of fighting in the UFC for anyone who doesn't really need the $$.

 

However, for people lower on the ladder or even on the team but not good enough to win gold (Cormier, Lawal, Askren, Hendricks) it is a good option. It can also be a very bad option though (Rosholt, Konrad, Lance Palmer, etc etc).

Askren is a pro fighter he just hasn’t been able thus far to get signed by the top dog company in mma

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Askren is a pro fighter he just hasn’t been able thus far to get signed by the top dog company in mma

He has he skill set. Dana just doesn’t like him and OneFC pays well.

 

He would be a top contender at a minimum in the UFC. Almost nobody could handle his top game.

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The field is finally set:

 

ANNOUNCED MATCHUPS
Men
125: Darian Cruz, Sr. (Lehigh) vs. Nick Piccininni, So. (Oklahoma State)
133: Seth Gross, Jr. (South Dakota State) vs. Stevan Micic, So. (Michigan)
141: Kevin Jack, Sr. (NC State) vs. Bryce Meredith, Sr. (Wyoming)
149: Max Thomsen, So. (Northern Iowa) vs. Matthew Kolodzik, So. (Princeton)
157: Alec Pantaleo, Jr. (Michigan) vs. B.J. Clagon, Sr. (Rider)
165: Kyle Dake (Cornell) vs. David Taylor (Penn State)
174: Mark Hall, So. (Penn State) vs. Zahid Valencia, So. (Arizona State)
184: Pete Renda, Sr. (NC State) vs. Drew Foster, Jr. (Northern Iowa)
197: Kollin Moore, So. (Ohio State) vs. Jared Haught, Sr. (Virginia Tech)
285: Tanner Hall, Jr. (Arizona State) vs. Nick Nevills, Jr. (Penn State)

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The field is finally set:

 

ANNOUNCED MATCHUPS

Men

125: Darian Cruz, Sr. (Lehigh) vs. Nick Piccininni, So. (Oklahoma State)

133: Seth Gross, Jr. (South Dakota State) vs. Stevan Micic, So. (Michigan)

141: Kevin Jack, Sr. (NC State) vs. Bryce Meredith, Sr. (Wyoming)

149: Max Thomsen, So. (Northern Iowa) vs. Matthew Kolodzik, So. (Princeton)

157: Alec Pantaleo, Jr. (Michigan) vs. B.J. Clagon, Sr. (Rider)

165: Kyle Dake (Cornell) vs. David Taylor (Penn State)

174: Mark Hall, So. (Penn State) vs. Zahid Valencia, So. (Arizona State)

184: Pete Renda, Sr. (NC State) vs. Drew Foster, Jr. (Northern Iowa)

197: Kollin Moore, So. (Ohio State) vs. Jared Haught, Sr. (Virginia Tech)

285: Tanner Hall, Jr. (Arizona State) vs. Nick Nevills, Jr. (Penn State)

 

Cruz - Dec

Gross - Maj

Jack - Dec

Thomsen - Dec

Pantaleo - Dec (underwhelming match imo.)

Valencia  - Dec

Renda - Maj

Moore - Maj

Hall - Dec

 

Over all, a lot of good matches that should be relatively competitive. Any word on who Walsh will be wrestling?

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Blasphemy.  People said this about Burroughs too.  The reality is that the very best in this sport enjoy a life better than 99% in the the UFC.  

 

If they did, they had zero basis to say it (about JB). Snyder has announced very publicly that he wants to fight in the UFC and he is a huge fan of the sport, unlike JB. I'm not saying it happens for sure, but I'll take Snyder's own words over your assessment that he is legitimately interested and, knowing the type of person he is (NOT financially motivated), perhaps even planning for it.

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IMO - the 165lb match is 100% guarantee the rematch of the NCAA final.... Why wouldn't it. The other matches will be good but that would be the highlight.

Ummm the 165 match might not be the rematch of the NCAA final for similar reasons as to why it isn't 1 vs 2 at every weight. Heck the best the could get to commit at 157 was Clagon vs Pantaleo and neither one of those guys is ranked top 5 at that weight.

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