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BigTenFanboy

Dayton Fix... to redshirt or not the redshirt?

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Cael has a few guys that he should consider making an alternative training and competition schedule for. I'm thinking Nolf and Zain. They have separated themselves from the field enough to justify it. I wouldn't necessarily go as extreme as Snyder's schedule, but a 60/40 free/folk split, or more, would likely help them far more than the standard 100% folk training schedule. At this point, Zain needs more "brushing up" than actual improvement on top/bottom in folkstyle. He needs just enough training to keep the sword sharp. In freestyle, he needs a turn that he has a legitimate chance to apply before the whistle blows. He also needs more work in other freestyle positions. He can probably add an essential freestyle skill or two before WTT with daily, consistent freestyle training. This is not likely to happen if he starts the freestyle training a few days after NCAA like most collegiate wrestlers. If Stieber is really coming up, the alternative schedule becomes a must. The reward outweighs the risk imo. I'd err on the side of being slightly underprepared for Sorenson than very underprepared for Stieber.

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The problem is Cael gets paid to win college wrestling matches and tournaments, not freestyle matches. The Snyder plan was unique to Snyder because if Ryan didn’t do it, he’d have no Snyder. The same can’t be said for literally anyone else in the country. And with Suriano gone, Cael will need every single point out of Zain to win another title with confidence.

 

PSU benefits more from winning another NCAA team title than from Zain winning a world medal. And the chances of the former are significantly greater than the latter no matter the training regimen for the next 9-10 months.

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The problem is Cael gets paid to win college wrestling matches and tournaments, not freestyle matches. The Snyder plan was unique to Snyder because if Ryan didn’t do it, he’d have no Snyder. The same can’t be said for literally anyone else in the country. And with Suriano gone, Cael will need every single point out of Zain to win another title with confidence.

PSU benefits more from winning another NCAA team title than from Zain winning a world medal. And the chances of the former are significantly greater than the latter no matter the training regimen for the next 9-10 months.

You know what, I didn't consider the position that PSU was in this year without Suriano. That's a good point. Maybe this year is not the best to throw this monkey wrench into the mix. But with the way things are going now with the U.S. success at the age-group World championships, Cael and the other coaches will have to offer "Snyder deals" to some of their future recruits. Good results at the World championships and alternative training leniency will increasingly become a good selling point to get some of these guys to come in and win Cael some more national titles while they are preparing for success of their own on the world stage.

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You know what, I didn't consider the position that PSU was in this year without Suriano. That's a good point. Maybe this year is not the best to throw this monkey wrench into the mix. But with the way things are going now with the U.S. success at the age-group World championships, Cael and the other coaches will have to offer "Snyder deals" to some of their future recruits. Good results at the World championships and alternative training leniency will increasingly become a good selling point to get some of these guys to come in and win Cael some more national titles while they are preparing for success of their own on the world stage.

I think 'Snyder deals' will start being promises to elite recruits.  "If you medal at worlds/olympics I'll let you pick your schedule."

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no one is saying anything about big bucks... world success while in his prime instead of wasting it wrestling folk... there is some money associatted with that... considerably more than wrestling folk...

 

you only got so many years... typically, our best waste their prime years leaning how not to wrestle...

I'm sympathetic to your point of view but it may be a bit dated.  We've entered an era of amazing wrestlers and guys like Fix, Lee, Hall, McHenry, Heinselman, Carr, Lewan, etc...are so skilled at Free when they hit college age that Folk training doesn't seem nearly as troublesome as it once was.  Personally, I'd dump it for Free if it were my decision to make--but we seem to be hitting our stride as a nation when it comes to producing really well round super competitors.  

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it just points to what i have been saying all along... the tide is turning... we are focusing on international success more now than ever... i hope it won't be too much longer until we have some of these RTCs offering up their own "scholarships" for the truly elite wrestlers to dismiss the collegiate system and just train full time real styles while still attending the university of their choice... 

 

I HAVE A DREAM!!!!!

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it just points to what i have been saying all along... the tide is turning... we are focusing on international success more now than ever... i hope it won't be too much longer until we have some of these RTCs offering up their own "scholarships" for the truly elite wrestlers to dismiss the collegiate system and just train full time real styles while still attending the university of their choice... 

 

I HAVE A DREAM!!!!!

Let me ask you this. Jordan Burroughs, someone who is considered one of the greatest of all time really developed into an elite wrestler while primarily training in folkstyle. Is he even better had he forgone his college career? Maybe he would have won in Rio had he not wrestled his NCAA career? Does David Taylor actually beat Kyle Dake in freestyle had he not wrestled for PSU?

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Why aren't people outraged over the possiblity of a redshirt? He's only 2 months younger than Hall was last year.

Well then this year he's not actually a "True freshman"

If he didn't repeat a year of school he got his redshirt year in Kindergarten.

He turned 19 in his senior year of high school. That's so abnormal!

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Let me ask you this. Jordan Burroughs, someone who is considered one of the greatest of all time really developed into an elite wrestler while primarily training in folkstyle. Is he even better had he forgone his college career? Maybe he would have won in Rio had he not wrestled his NCAA career? Does David Taylor actually beat Kyle Dake in freestyle had he not wrestled for PSU?

if JB had not competed internationally he would not be remembered as a out of the ordinary wrestler... 

 

ask yourself what he could have accomplished if he was allowed to focus on what he ultimately built his legacy on from an early age?

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if JB had not competed internationally he would not be remembered as a out of the ordinary wrestler...

 

ask yourself what he could have accomplished if he was allowed to focus on what he ultimately built his legacy on from an early age?

I'm not asking myself, I'm asking you. I'm not the expert or super passionate about Freestyle. Do you believe Burroughs would be even better at Freestyle had he not gone the NCAA route?

 

And the question never was what would his legacy be had he not wrestled internationally.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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I'm not asking myself, I'm asking you. I'm not the expert or super passionate about Freestyle. Do you believe Burroughs would be even better at Freestyle had he not gone the NCAA route?

 

And the question never was what would his legacy be had he not wrestled internationally.

yes, i believe he would have seen the need to develop a leg lace earlier than he did and would have more world medals on his resume had he done that... 

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he did not even compete internationally until he was past his prime physical years... silly to think he would not have a bigger world resume had he been involved in a system that rewarded wrestling instead of not wrestling from an early age... 

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yes, i believe he would have seen the need to develop a leg lace earlier than he did and would have more world medals on his resume had he done that...

 

You see, I disagree. Now I know you don't care whether I agree with you as you stated in an earlier post, but in my opinion Burroughs really developed and improved as a wrestler half way through his college career. I'm of the opinion the college grind made him tougher and stronger. Burroughs didn't come into college a world beater but he certainly was when he left. He became one while training in folk. Wrestling the 30+ college matches within a comparitively short time made him into the wrestler he is today. Basically what I am saying is I believe Burroughs' NCAA training had a lot to do with him becoming an Olympic and World Champion, and if not for that training he wouldn't be where he is today. Now I know you disagree and I know you don't care that I disagree but hey that's my opinion.

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1. Wrestling ain't basketball, and the "money" ain't the money that BBall players of a much lesser calibur than Fix as a wrestler is. 

 

2. Name names of elite wrestlers ever that have the options we've seen recently.

Senior world team medalist or better while still at a college age.

 

Obviously,

Snyder

Cox

 

Both stayed.

 

Cejudo: never enrolled, gold medalist

How is his financial situation now?  I haven't heard from him in awhile is he swimming in money?

 

Distant past.....examples please before we speculate.

 

A common misconception on this board is Henry did not attend college.     Henry not only enrolled, he earned his degree.  

 

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/olympics/2015/04/22/henry-cejudo-mixed-martial-arts-olympics-wrestling-maryvale-high-grand-canyon-university/26207729/

 

Word is he's done well in real estate investments and he has a pretty good income from  fighting.    Henry is doing well for himself.   

 

 

That said, I just can't see putting Fix on the mat over Piccininni unless Fix demands a wrestle off  and wins the spot.      

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he did not even compete internationally until he was past his prime physical years... silly to think he would not have a bigger world resume had he been involved in a system that rewarded wrestling instead of not wrestling from an early age... 

Burroughs was a very late bloomer.  I don't think he'd have much more of an international resume.  Maybe 1 more medal.  But if he had only done freestyle he probably would have picked up the lace earlier and been even better in those first few gold medal years.  

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if JB had been training and competing in the real styles during that same time, do you think he would better prepared or less prepared for the world stage?

 

that is the real question... if we as a country focused on what the rest of the world focused on entirely, would our results world wide improve or not?

 

we are locked into a system for purely jingoist reasons... if we had taken a different path 100 years ago no one would even dare argue it's worth... 

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Burroughs was a very late bloomer.  I don't think he'd have much more of an international resume.  Maybe 1 more medal.  But if he had only done freestyle he probably would have picked up the lace earlier and been even better in those first few gold medal years.

 

What a silly thing to say. It's silly to believe his international resume wouldn't be much larger.

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if JB had been training and competing in the real styles during that same time, do you think he would better prepared or less prepared for the world stage?

 

that is the real question... if we as a country focused on what the rest of the world focused on entirely, would our results world wide improve or not?

 

we are locked into a system for purely jingoist reasons... if we had taken a different path 100 years ago no one would even dare argue it's worth...

 

I like how you have the ability to see and know what society would be thinking and saying if it went a different path 100 years ago.

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I like how you have the ability to see and know what society would be thinking and saying if it went a different path 100 years ago.

FFS... most of this society's leanings are predicated on what has come before them and nothing else... it is the curse of the average...

 

but, whatever... continue to defend running to the edge and stalling for that ride out point... more power to you... 

 

USA!! USA!! USA!!

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FFS... most of this society's leanings are predicated on what has come before them and nothing else... it is the curse of the average...

 

but, whatever... continue to defend running to the edge and stalling for that ride out point... more power to you... 

 

USA!! USA!! USA!!

And you continue defending the "real" style of wrestling. You know the one that changes and overhauls its scoring system and rules every few olympic cycles because you know yea! Its such a "real" style.

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minor tweaks to a faulty system that has ultimately rewarded not wrestling as opposed to wrestling... 

 

folk has more rule changes than international... you can not refute that because you would be patently wrong...

 

but keep beating that drum... good on you...

 

USA!!USA!!!USA!!!!

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