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1995 vs 2017 Freestyle Teams!


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#1 Witherman

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 02:21 PM

Saw this on Xander Schultz's twitter, thought it would spark a decent debate here

Zeke Jones vs Thomas Gilman
Terry Brands vs Logan Stieber
Tom Brands vs Zain Retheford
Townsend Saunders vs James Green
Dave Schultz vs Jordan Burroughs
Kevin Jackson vs J'Den Cox
Kurt Angle vs Kyle Snyder
Bruce Baumghartner vs Nick Gwiazdowski

Personally I have it:

Jones
Brands
Brands
Green
Burroughs
Jackson
Snyder
Baumghartner

Would absolutely love to see Schultz Burroughs and cox jackson was tough for me!

#2 BigTenFanboy

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 02:28 PM

Saw this on Xander Schultz's twitter, thought it would spark a decent debate here
Zeke Jones vs Thomas Gilman
Terry Brands vs Logan Stieber
Tom Brands vs Zain Retheford
Townsend Saunders vs James Green
Dave Schultz vs Jordan Burroughs
Kevin Jackson vs J'Den Cox
Kurt Angle vs Kyle Snyder
Bruce Baumghartner vs Nick Gwiazdowski
Personally I have it:
Jones
Brands
Brands
Green
Burroughs
Jackson
Snyder
Baumghartner
Would absolutely love to see Schultz Burroughs and cox jackson was tough for me!


I don't know about Synder beating Kurt Angle. After all he did win the Olympics with a "broken frickin neck!"

I kid I kid.. I agree with all your picks.
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#3 TripNSweep

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 10:38 PM

Snyder would have a tough time with Angle. He's a bit bigger, a cardio machine and had tremendous defense and great counters. Angle was never known to light up the scoreboard but he was damn tough to score on. That would be great to watch.
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#4 BigTenFanboy

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 12:09 AM

Snyder would have a tough time with Angle. He's a bit bigger, a cardio machine and had tremendous defense and great counters. Angle was never known to light up the scoreboard but he was damn tough to score on. That would be great to watch.


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#5 Fishhook

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 12:09 AM

I agree. Angle was really really great. I'd favor Kyle, of course, but think Angle would indeed be a tough out, at least. 

 

I think Saunders would have taken Green at his top, but he had many down years too. 



#6 BadgerMon

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 03:37 AM

Saw this on Xander Schultz's twitter, thought it would spark a decent debate here

Zeke Jones vs Thomas Gilman
Terry Brands vs Logan Stieber
Tom Brands vs Zain Retheford
Townsend Saunders vs James Green
Dave Schultz vs Jordan Burroughs
Kevin Jackson vs J'Den Cox
Kurt Angle vs Kyle Snyder
Bruce Baumghartner vs Nick Gwiazdowski

Personally I have it:

Jones
Brands
Brands
Green
Burroughs
Jackson
Snyder
Baumghartner

Would absolutely love to see Schultz Burroughs and cox jackson was tough for me!

 

 

You have the Brands Brothers at the wrong weight classes. They competed at lighter weights than Stieber and Retherford are comfortable at. You would match them up vs Gilman and Stieber.

For the record I see the matches, matched up correctly, as 50-50 in just about every case except I would give Snyder the edge over Angle, and either bump Jones or Terry Brands out of the lowest weight class match, and match Saunders vs Retherford or Green.



#7 BigTimeFan

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 04:15 AM

Schultz in 1995 was getting up there in age but still formidable against anyone. I think Schultz would have been able to score from Par Terre but JB would be able to take him down so I vote for Schultz in the end. 



#8 Tofurky

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 05:34 AM

Which rule set?


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#9 sgallan

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 06:40 AM

Going on results of the respective years (with an exception for Saunders).....

 

Gilman - Placed better and strong guys with tanks were a tough for Zeke

Terry  

Tom

Saunders - that was just an unreal weight in those days 

JB

Jackson

Snyder

Baumgartner 



#10 BigTenFanboy

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 07:09 AM

Going on results of the respective years (with an exception for Saunders).....

Gilman - Placed better and strong guys with tanks were a tough for Zeke
Terry
Tom
Saunders - that was just an unreal weight in those days
JB
Jackson
Snyder
Baumgartner

Jones won an Olympic Silver to go along with a World gold the year before. He also has wins over Sammie Henson another World champion/Olympic silver. I would put that over Gilman's world silver. I would say the advantahe that Gilman would have over Jones would be size.

Edited by BigTenFanboy, 21 October 2017 - 07:15 AM.


#11 sgallan

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 09:53 AM

Jones won an Olympic Silver to go along with a World gold the year before. He also has wins over Sammie Henson another World champion/Olympic silver. I would put that over Gilman's world silver. I would say the advantahe that Gilman would have over Jones would be size.

 

This isn't about career it is about results for one year 95 versus 2017 only. Clearly Jones had a better career, it is not even close. I didn't even want to answer this because I figured somebody wouldn't get the perspective part. But if you want to go without perspective..... Gilman, Loggie, and Zain all win because they were a lot bigger.  Good point on Henson though. 



#12 BigTenFanboy

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 10:59 AM

This isn't about career it is about results for one year 95 versus 2017 only. Clearly Jones had a better career, it is not even close. I didn't even want to answer this because I figured somebody wouldn't get the perspective part. But if you want to go without perspective..... Gilman, Loggie, and Zain all win because they were a lot bigger. Good point on Henson though.

I'm not talking about career either though. Jones was a world champion in 1991. Gilman was a world silver in 2017. That's single season vs another single season. I believe Jones was at 114.5lbs where as Gilman was at 125. The weight advantage is the only edge I see at this point for Gilman.

Jones had tremendous experience at this point where as Gilman was new and fresh to the international scene at this point. The wrestlers he faced were relatively fresh faced on the world stage as well. I would see Jones in 95 beating Gilman.

Edited by BigTenFanboy, 21 October 2017 - 11:05 AM.


#13 sgallan

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 11:08 AM

I'm not talking about career either though. Jones was a world champion in 1991. Gilman was a world silver in 2017. That's single season vs another single season. I believe Jones was at 114.5lbs where as Gilman was at 125. The weight advantage is the only edge I see at this point for Gilman. I would see Jones in 95 beating Gilman.

 

You just said something that Jones did in 1991 as a point for 1995 which means...... you are trolling. Your mommy must be proud to have raised a troll.



#14 BigTenFanboy

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 11:59 AM

You just said something that Jones did in 1991 as a point for 1995 which means...... you are trolling. Your mommy must be proud to have raised a troll.

How am I trolling? Jones was a 1991 world champion and a 1992 Olympic Silver medalist? By choosing him to defeat a world silver who defeated 0 world medalists (heading into worlds) is trolling? Its called having a discussion in a fantasy matchup.

Jones was already a very proven and decorated international wrestler by 1995 with some very impressive wins over some very proven world level wrestlers. Gilman won silver in a weight class that was virtually emptied out of experience. I go with the more experienced wrestler who's already accomplished wins over top world level wrestlers vs the new kid on the block who beat other new kids on the block.

And guess what? I would pick a 1995 Sammie Henson over 2017 Gilman as well! Or would you consider that trolling as well?

Edited by BigTenFanboy, 21 October 2017 - 12:06 PM.

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#15 sgallan

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 12:44 PM

How am I trolling? Jones was a 1991 world champion and a 1992 Olympic Silver medalist? By choosing him to defeat a world silver who defeated 0 world medalists (heading into worlds) is trolling? Its called having a discussion in a fantasy matchup.

Jones was already a very proven and decorated international wrestler by 1995 with some very impressive wins over some very proven world level wrestlers. Gilman won silver in a weight class that was virtually emptied out of experience. I go with the more experienced wrestler who's already accomplished wins over top world level wrestlers vs the new kid on the block who beat other new kids on the block.

And guess what? I would pick a 1995 Sammie Henson over 2017 Gilman as well! Or would you consider that trolling as well?

Dude, you have already show you are trolling, quit embarrassing your mommy.

#16 BigTenFanboy

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 12:54 PM

Dude, you have already show you are trolling, quit embarrassing your mommy.


I'm trolling because I picked a defending world champion and Olympic Silver medalist whos defeated many other expereinced world level wrestlers over a first time World silver who defeated 0 returning medalists? If anyone is trolling its you my friend.

#17 Housebuye

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 10:56 PM

Dude, you have already show you are trolling, quit embarrassing your mommy.

Compelling argument

#18 Witherman

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 03:31 AM

Hey now quit bickering in my thread!

#19 AHamilton

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:08 AM

It depends on the rule set for some of these bouts.  If we are wrestling under 1995 rules, I definitely take Saunders.  Forced par terre and longer par terre.  Green with his 2017 sjill set could be in trouble.  Townshend was a beast on top.



#20 treep2000

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 05:47 AM

Zeke Jones vs Thomas Gilman
Terry Brands vs Logan Stieber
Tom Brands vs Zain Retheford
Townsend Saunders vs James Green
Dave Schultz vs Jordan Burroughs
Kevin Jackson vs J'Den Cox
Kurt Angle vs Kyle Snyder
Bruce Baumghartner vs Nick Gwiazdowski

 

I'm sure this will cause "ire", but here's how I have it, and why:

* Jones > Gilman:  It's Zeke, and quite frankly, simply better.

* Stieber > Brands:  Awaiting the ire here.  I personally feel, that at 61kg, Stieber was 3rd best in the world, but ran into the "real" #1 and #2 due to the draw.  Those "real" #1 and #2 are on at a VERY high level.  If they wrestled 10 matches, I see Stieber taking 6, and Brands taking 4 of them.

* Brands > Zain:  Zain is still too green.

* Saunders > Green:  I just feel that Saunders is better positionally.

* Burroughs > Schultz:  Tough to say, as they are both legends.  Burroughs gets it by sheer volume of medals

* Cox > Jackson:  If there was ever a tie, this is it.  I have to pick someone, and until someone domestically can beat J'Den...  (yes... recency bias)

* Snyder > Angle:  Until proven otherwise, he's the best P4P, and my pick as the GOAT (will be proclaimed as such by 2025)

* Baum > Gwiz:  Arguably the GOAT for the USA.  

 

So... 

1995 Team:  4 Wins

2017 Team:  4 Wins

 

And it's a tie... going to Tiebreakers, and whoa boy.


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