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No they aren't and Wrestling is the father of almost all martial arts anyway. Greco and freestyle have the same basics. Positioning and strength become a bit more important. Greco Roman and Freestyle are the same sport, different disciplines. Butterfly and backstroke are still swimming.

 

We need to get better as a country and I am disgusted that people on here are saying that Greco needs to die in America? ....we need to get better and we need to get more throwing involved in folkstyle in order to improve our overall wrestling skills, but also to attract people to wrestling. Big Throws really sell the sport.

Ok. So add Submission wrestling to your list. Why are you singling our Greco? Because UWW decided? Modern Greco is not any more wrestling than submission grappling.

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We are behind Russia, Iran, Azerbaijan pretty consistent in Freestyle, though not this year. On average, in Freestyle we are about third or fourth. If we got better at upper body ties I think our freestyle results would improve even more. As far as shooting and finishing we are by far the best though. I just wish we were more well-rounded in basic wrestling skills.

We are a top 5 wrestling power. I’d like to think maybe even top 3, but we need to replicate our success from 2017 before we can say that.

 

Our freestyle might improve if we do more Greco, but that isn’t a given. It’s also not th argument being discussed.

 

I’m not anti Greco. I don’t enjoy it as much, but I don’t want them to get rid of it. It just doesn’t bother me all that much that the US is terrible at it.

 

I’d prefer to improve there, but I’d rather be even better at freestyle.

 

I’m glad Lindland is doing whatever he can to improve our Greco team. I hope he succeeds.

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Do you really think throwing has much of a place in modern Greco?  Modern Greco is pushing, blocking, and penalty points.  There is nothing in modern greco that sells the sport.  

 

It's pushing, blocking, and penalty points at the highest levels BECAUSE they know how to throw and how to defend the throws. 

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It's pushing, blocking, and penalty points at the highest levels BECAUSE they know how to throw and how to defend the throws. 

I don't disagree at all.  I love Greco and think it's hugely valuable as a learning style.  But when the guys are that good it is almost impossible to create a rule set that leads to anything other than incredibly boring pushing matches.  So the whole sport becomes who is best at winning whatever random penalty system they currently use.  

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I don't disagree at all. I love Greco and think it's hugely valuable as a learning style. But when the guys are that good it is almost impossible to create a rule set that leads to anything other than incredibly boring pushing matches. So the whole sport becomes who is best at winning whatever random penalty system they currently use.

This is exactly the problem with the sport. With video available worldwide now for scouting to help with match preparation and the natural evolution of technique, the guys who devote their lives to the sport and are elite competitors have tiny edges over each other at best. Occasionally you’ll have a physical freak who can put it on anyone, but those guys are rare exceptions.

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I don't disagree at all. I love Greco and think it's hugely valuable as a learning style. But when the guys are that good it is almost impossible to create a rule set that leads to anything other than incredibly boring pushing matches. So the whole sport becomes who is best at winning whatever random penalty system they currently use.

The previous poster said that the freestylers might do better if they did more Greco. You said that Greco was all pushing. I said that high level was pushing because they DID know how to throw and how to defend throws. But they still learned how along the way. Whether or not high level Greco is fun to watch for Americans is a completely different argument as to whether it can help the freestylers from a performance standpoint. Also, Americans feel similarly about high level soccer as to high level Greco.

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The previous poster said that the freestylers might do better if they did more Greco. You said that Greco was all pushing. I said that high level was pushing because they DID know how to throw and how to defend throws. But they still learned how along the way. Whether or not high level Greco is fun to watch for Americans is a completely different argument as to whether it can help the freestylers from a performance standpoint. Also, Americans feel similarly about high level soccer as to high level Greco.

I said Greco was pushing in response to him saying Greco was about throws and throws sell the sport.  I will agree all day Greco is a great thing.  I will disagree all day that Greco is fan friendly and sells the sport.  

 

And millions of American fans watch high level European soccer.  NBC paid $1 Billion to broadcast it in the USA for 6 years.  So while some don't like the lack of scoring in soccer, tens of millions in this country do.  That is nothing like Greco which is unwatchable even by people who love competing in Greco.

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We are behind Russia, Iran, Azerbaijan pretty consistent in Freestyle, though not this year.  On average, in Freestyle we are about third or fourth.  If we got better at upper body ties I think our freestyle results would improve even more.  As far as shooting and finishing we are by far the best though.  I just wish we were more well-rounded in basic wrestling skills. 

 

I think, because of rule changes, freestyle has gotten closer to folk. Especially on your feet and mat positioning. On your feet is important because par terre opportunities are scarce unless you chain them. This, with regional training opportunities, and more consistent coaching..... our men's freestyle will be top 3 for the foreseeable future. Save for the dive in and roll around guys (like Heil) a lot of folkstyle translates now, and you can be a freestyle leaning wrestler and still do well in folk  (Snyder, Hall, Z Valenia, Gilman, etc....). Plus there are more guys wanting to throw there hat in the ring in freestyle and some more money as well. Greco is just different now. The rules change even more than freestyle. And more significantly than in freestyle as well. I gave up trying to keep up years ago. Even the weights are different. In the youth tournaments there isn't the kids wrestling both styles anymore. It is almost a regional thing with greco and a mostly Minnesota and Wisconsin style (I think, I couldn't say for sure) and the kids who just don't do as well in the other styles but have talent merge to greco but without a lot of success, and are often just going through the motions.  

 

Bottom line: People have said for years we need to concentrate more on freestyle to be successful there, but the two styles ended up meeting, to an extent, in the middle. There is nothing remotely similar to those styles, save some hand fighting, that relates to greco. We can hold position okay but do not have the capacity to score, because nothing kids do lead them to scoring in Greco. 

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Well our girls did not do that well today, maybe we will have better luck tomorrow.

True, but we didn’t send out A team. It gave some of our uonand comers good experience. Japan even hava world gold in there (more power to them, but we didn’t send our best and even they struggle against japan)

 

In Greco, we sent our best prospect and senior team rep

Edited by Housebuye

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True, but we didn’t send out A team. It gave some of our uonand comers good experience. Japan even hava world gold in there (more power to them, but we didn’t send our best and even they struggle against japan)

 

In Greco, we sent our best prospect and senior team rep

Japan didn't send their womens A team, either.  The only one that would truly be considered that is Haruna Okuno at 55kg(This year's senior world champion).

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Japan didn't send their womens A team, either. The only one that would truly be considered that is Haruna Okuno at 55kg(This year's senior world champion).

Agreed

 

My point is we sent close to our A team for Greco and got killed. We can’t say the same for women’s. The women’s loss means a lot less than the Greco loss.

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Kayla Miracle is a damn good wrestler. I see senior level medals in the future. She needs to be in a different weight class than Maroulis to do that.

 

Hope she pulls off a gold one day. She has multiple age level medals, but never a gold.

 

I don’t know much about her opponent, but I expect a bronze from her today.

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When is Mens freestyle going to happen? Is there any way to watch the matches? I don't see any coverage on Flo

Starts at 4am ET tom. Medal matches are at 12pm I think. Same on Sunday.

 

Streamed on Trackwrestling

Edited by Housebuye

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Kayla Miracle is a damn good wrestler. I see senior level medals in the future. She needs to be in a different weight class than Maroulis to do that.

 

Hope she pulls off a gold one day. She has multiple age level medals, but never a gold.

 

I don’t know much about her opponent, but I expect a bronze from her today.

Kayla's issue is she is action reaction without a sense of tactics. Alo is the same way.This works really good at the junior levels, and when they were little kids, but they get picked apart at the world nd national levels. Kayla's bronze match was like this. Our very best have learned this but the 'depth' part of our women's wrestling haven't. Edited by sgallan

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Kayla's issue is she is action reaction without a sense of tactics. Alo is the same way.This works really good at the junior levels, and when they were little kids, but they get picked apart at the world nd national levels. Kayla's bronze match was like this. Our very best have learned this but the 'depth' part of our women's wrestling haven't.

Fair enough. She has the wrestling skills to become a world medalist. Her tactics will improve.

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Men's freestyle update: all USA wrestler lost their first matches at the U23's today. 

 

Fix lost to AZE 5-2. The guy effectively countered Fix at every step. Fix was much more aggressive but AZE kept position and was able to pick Fix off with a front headlock to single leg move 2x. Fix's usual arsenal was completely neutralize. 

 

Brooks lost to ISR. Arm throw to a fall in the first minute.

 

McKee lost to TUR 8-5. Closer than it looked. He got down 6-1 and then got a TD followed by a gut wrench attempt that almost worked but instead got turned himself and then he reversed so that it was 8-4 (could well have been 6-5, it was that close). Another pushout for McKee and it was 8-5.

 

Kroells lost 10-0 to AZE. Kroells got taken down to his back (or not) in the first 30 seconds. Looked dicey. Kroells challenged and lost and it was 5-0 AZE. Kroells shoots straight on but gets flattened and gives up another TD. Then Kroells gets a front headlock but gets taken down. Ends 10-0 TF for AZE.

 

But Fix's loss makes the semifinals!  

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