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I must be the only one who views a VERY weak USA team getting bounced a good thing.    Send the D team, waste of time and money.     Want better results,  send our best.   Personally don't mind this being an event where USA doesn't put too much focus into.   I am overjoyed with 

 

 

1, USA world champs seniors  - we need this to be where we're a force 

2. I don't recall the world cup finish but I'd like that to be top 3 consistently 

3. USA world champs junior - we need this to be where we're a force

 

4. Cool to get the cadets winning too - it's not a must in my views but certainly we want to be in the mix here.     

 

5. USA world champs club team, very cool -  I would be OK with this not being a power event for us.       
 

If we are firing well  on those top 4 events, everyone else can have under23's as far as I'm concerned.     

And even Fix losing is a good thing.   This is when you want to see what others have scouted you with and what to expect.      

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Upcoming:

 

Walz vs Thiele-Germany, R16

Kuular-Russia vs Tumur-Ochir-Mongolia, quarterfinals (McKenna hoping Kuular brings him back in)

Nabiev-Russia vs Tileu-Kazakhstan, quarterfinals (Martinez hoping Nabiev brings him back in)

Lewis vs. Akdeniz-Turkey OR Omarov-Azerbaijan, quarterfinals

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I must be the only one who views a VERY weak USA team getting bounced a good thing.     

i think others agree with you. This is a very high level event that we don't take seriously because it's complicated to compete during the college season. I hope that we do more to attract better competition for qualifying. A few of our freestyle guys are nowhere near our senior-level top 10 and other nations are sending nearly their national teams.

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The execution of UWW tournaments continues to baffle me. It's 1pm locally and Walz hasn't wrestled his first match in the R16. Meanwhile, lots of guys have had both their R32 and R16 in other weights AND a couple quarterfinals involving guys in their THIRD matches are already in the books. Walz will have to wrestle 3 times in rapid succession (like these quarterfinalists are having to do). Why in the world can't they at least put R16 matches involving fresh guys ahead of R16 involving people who have already wrestled (and DEFINITELY in front of quarterfinalists)?

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i think others agree with you. This is a very high level event that we don't take seriously because it's complicated to compete during the college season. I hope that we do more to attract better competition for qualifying. A few of our freestyle guys are nowhere near our senior-level top 10 and other nations are sending nearly their national teams.

 

Do we need to make this an important event though?   It interferes with the college season and to me and to most on this board, the college season is pretty damn important.   I'll be honest, I'd rather Martinez wasn't there.   Few others I'd like to see in college instead of the international mats.    This essentially overlaps with much of the senior team as well.  

 

I'm guessing here, I don't have anyone's birthday in front of me but our best under 23 team (assuming Olympics weights, don't know what they adtually are)  might looks like:

 

57 kg Gillman

60 kg

65 kg Retherford

74 kg Derringer 

86 kg Cox

97 kg Snyder

125 kg Gwiz

 

Now those may be off but my point, we can load the team if this is actually important  to USA, but wouldn't we rather not send our #1 or #2 guys and allow this to be developmental?   Or individual?   If you have a super stud like Fix who wants to go, don't have Gilman beat him out.       The top guys want to be on a schedule anyways and only compete so much.   There's: 

 

Beat the streets 

NYAC

Schultz 

Yarygin 

Medved 

Pan Ams 

trials

US open

 

That's a lot.  I'd rather we not load this thing and instead support the elite under 23 guy who's not  the senior rep.    

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...

 

Now those may be off but my point, we can load the team if this is actually important to USA, but wouldn't we rather not send our #1 or #2 guys and allow this to be developmental? Or individual? If you have a super stud like Fix who wants to go, don't have Gilman beat him out.

...

 

That's a lot. I'd rather we not load this thing and instead support the elite under 23 guy who's not the senior rep.

Agree. Particularly since this is year one in the quadrennial.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Agree. Particularly since this is year one in the quadrennial.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Ok, well I like your feedback.   I log in and there's this doom and gloom feel to here and I'm wondering what's the big fuss about.   Of course we always want to win everything, but there has to be context to what it is and who we are in terms of strength of team/importance of event.   I like the idea of under 23's.   More options are always good.  Grow the sport, I am all in.   But lets know who we are as a country, meaning what events matter to us most and lets focus on those with discipline.    We do our best at what remains and those are usually our non top end guys learning and fulfilling unfulfilled goals. 

 

I used to scratch my head when Russia would send so so teams and lose at given events.   I would wonder why not crush the world at the given tournament?      Then I realized they look to the Olympics first.   Then worlds.  World Cup is like an after thought.   Some duals vs USA not too loaded..      Come Olympics and wolds, Russia crushes again.   they know who they are and what it is that matters to them.    

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I must be the only one who views a VERY weak USA team getting bounced a good thing.    Send the D team, waste of time and money.     Want better results,  send our best.   Personally don't mind this being an event where USA doesn't put too much focus into.   I am overjoyed with 

 

 

1, USA world champs seniors  - we need this to be where we're a force 

2. I don't recall the world cup finish but I'd like that to be top 3 consistently 

3. USA world champs junior - we need this to be where we're a force

 

4. Cool to get the cadets winning too - it's not a must in my views but certainly we want to be in the mix here.     

 

5. USA world champs club team, very cool -  I would be OK with this not being a power event for us.       

 

If we are firing well  on those top 4 events, everyone else can have under23's as far as I'm concerned.     

And even Fix losing is a good thing.   This is when you want to see what others have scouted you with and what to expect.      

 

Cletus, good insights as usual. The USA didn't send a strong team in most weight classes but let's face it, it's not 100% clear why. First off, there were U23 World Team Trials and not a lot of top tier U23 guys showed up. Some examples:

 

* In 74kg IMart and Chance Marsteller appeared.

* At 86kg there are a lot of top tier junior guys who might have showed up but didn't: Valencia, Martin, NIckal.

* Snyder might have shown but didn't. In his case the tournament would have been a waste of energy b/c he's so far ahead, but tell that to Georgia at 125kg.

* At 70kg I don't know much about Richie Lewis but Nolf is eligible (Green is 24)

* At 57kg by the way Gilman was born in 1994, I think that makes him eligible, anyone know?

* At 65kg Zain is eligible and while McKenna is good he's not the same level. 

 

So what's going on? Why aren't they? Is it simply that it's the college season as compared to Jr Worlds which happens spring/summer? 

So why didn't better guys show up? One possibility is the timing, it's right at the start of the college season. But 

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I don’t think anyone is that disappointed by the team results, more like some individual results. For me, it is mainly Fix going to the BBQ line after destroying at junior worlds that is a very bad letdown. It’s not even that he lost as much as how. His style is scout-able and exploitable more than I’d like.

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Thanks Shiraz. Amazing. We only see what we think we should see sometimes, I missed that entirely.

 

My assumption has always been that while it's the official position of the government to forfeit to Israel (is it because they think Israeli shouldn't exist? Because they want to protest?), I always assumed the individuals involved just want to compete and would gladly wrestle the Israelis. Therefore the policy punishes the athletes as much as it protests Israel. What do you think?

 

The governments position is that Israel does not exist and is an illegitimate state, so they do not recognise them and one way they do that is by not allowing athletes to compete against them. The athletes would obviously rather compete but if someone goes rogue and does compete with an Israeli they will apparently be ineligible to compete for Iran ever again. The funny thing is that Palestinians themselves will compete against Israel. Karimi himself has since posted on his instagram page about him not receiving his rights, as this is the second time this has happened to him. 

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The governments position is that Israel does not exist and is an illegitimate state, so they do not recognise them and one way they do that is by not allowing athletes to compete against them. The athletes would obviously rather compete but if someone goes rogue and does compete with an Israeli they will apparently be ineligible to compete for Iran ever again. The funny thing is that Palestinians themselves will compete against Israel. Karimi himself has since posted on his instagram page about him not receiving his rights, as this is the second time this has happened to him. 

Thanks Shiraz. Karimi posting on his instagram page seems like a dangerous move. 

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The governments position is that Israel does not exist and is an illegitimate state, so they do not recognise them and one way they do that is by not allowing athletes to compete against them. The athletes would obviously rather compete but if someone goes rogue and does compete with an Israeli they will apparently be ineligible to compete for Iran ever again. The funny thing is that Palestinians themselves will compete against Israel. Karimi himself has since posted on his instagram page about him not receiving his rights, as this is the second time this has happened to him.

What does not receiving his rights mean?

 

It really is a silly argument. One of the wonderful side defects of sports is the apolitical aspects. I love seeing North Korean athletes succeeding. Watching warring nations shaking hands after a match is incredible.

 

Iran and Israel shouldn’t even be enemies. It is silly.

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Well today is going better than yesterday that's for sure. Walz and Martinez have been pulled back in, Lewis is in the semis and McKenna is still alive. Kuular from Russia who beat him is up soon on Mat A. If he wins his semifinals match, he's back in as well.

Especially considering our Day 2 guys are much worse on paper. Love it

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