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fanta

Biggest flop in college

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On 11/15/2017 at 1:30 PM, fanta said:

I'll give our state credit for this one.  One of the, if it not the most highly touted blue chipper in state history.....

 

Chance M.

 

Name one from your state.

 

 

Cruel topic, but it's a cold world out there. Sometimes I think I'm getting a little frosty myself.

VA - Jeremy Ferry - 3x AAA champ and Asics Dream Teamer. Went to UNC never to be heard from again, sorta. He's on record as saying that Lam was the reason he retired. Something about "negative reinforcement."

 

*Obviously, Gardner is the easy answer for VA, but calling the jr hodge winner a "flop" is to miss the forest for the trees.

*Edit: To spread the cruelty around, I will acknowledge that I was the biggest flop in the history of my school, district, region, and state (small school): lots of wins in hs, but a .500 record in college with only 1 notable win. Yey me!

Edited by jackwebster

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On 11/15/2017 at 3:12 PM, JBluegill133 said:

 

I just don't understand the point of listing all the people who didn't accomplish what we expected them too.  Why point out peoples shortcomings instead of celebrating their accomplishments?, We (wrestlers) are a small community.  Let's not eat our own.

Amen....I won't answer this question, and I could!

 

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Re cruelty:

I get that the OP started the thread in bad faith. They posted not to start a discussion but to take a shot at Marstellar. The choice of "flop" instead of "underwhelm" or "stumble" is proof enough.

That said, I think discussing "what happened to so-and-so" is legit. These discussions can shed light on why the wrestler didn't live up to expectations. E.g., Ferry's criticisms of Lam spoke to the general disorder of the UNC program. It had a reputation as the school where HS stars (PA stars, in particular) went to disappear. It also helped make sense of my own recruiting story. Check this: Lam tried to recruit me the year after I had graduated HS; I was already wrestling in the ACC. 

Edited by jackwebster

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20 hours ago, gobraves101905 said:

Lance Benick. Such high hopes as part of the first ASU class for Zeke Jones. 
 
The same year and weight, Bobby Stevenson  Both guys looked like guarantees  

 

I wouldn't call Benick a flop. He has done quite well at D3. I think it was more that ASU wasn't a good fit, not the wrestling, but all the other things going on. If you aren't used to that kind of place or culture it can be a big shock.

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I'll say Jordan Thomas and Taylor Massa for Michigan.  I was HUGE fans of the both of them through high school and I expected waves at the collegiate level.  Unfortunately injuries took their toll on the both of them.  Jordan's had already started in high school, yet he was able to beat Gabe Dean (twice) in their senior season.  I think Taylor's was an accumulation of injuries and he was cutting too much weight his first few seasons, which exacerbated the injury problem(s).

I believe the term 'flop' is a bad word to use when describing kids, however if they're due to injury I don't see the reason it should be taken as an insult.  Both Massa and Thomas are still very active in the game and succeeding, just not as competitors.

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6 minutes ago, Elevator said:

Biggest flops are guys who did not try or got injured and could not try - there are a lot of great schoolboy wrestlers that did not achieve in college.    

Aye, yeah I agree.  As far as the school(s) I follow closely, those two are the biggest for me, injuries notwithstanding.  Zac Hall is also right up there for UofM.

If we're talking gents that showed ridiculous promise as recruits and early that never really rounded it out, Grajales and Bruno have to be up there for UofM.  Otherwise since about 2005 I don't really think there have been too many 'busts' that weren't due to injury (with UofM).

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2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I'll say Jordan Thomas and Taylor Massa for Michigan.  I was HUGE fans of the both of them through high school and I expected waves at the collegiate level.  Unfortunately injuries took their toll on the both of them.  Jordan's had already started in high school, yet he was able to beat Gabe Dean (twice) in their senior season.  I think Taylor's was an accumulation of injuries and he was cutting too much weight his first few seasons, which exacerbated the injury problem(s).

I believe the term 'flop' is a bad word to use when describing kids, however if they're due to injury I don't see the reason it should be taken as an insult.  Both Massa and Thomas are still very active in the game and succeeding, just not as competitors.

I think we all need to be very clear in that these individuals that we are referencing; we are referencing based on their performance first as "kids", but how they "flopped" as an "adult".  These are men when they get to college.  Calling them kids is a nice, nostalgic way to reference those that are younger than us, but the reality is, once they turn 18, they are no different than the MEN that are fighting overseas, taking bullets for their brethren.  These are men, and no longer "kids".  

If we "feel" that they are still "kids", then that opens the door to a whole bunch of other topics and conversations, not worth going into (drinking age, combat age, neurological age, etc.).  I find it disingenuous that the moral equivalency fails and the usage of the term "men" vs. "kids" only comes into play when it's potentially negative (i.e. "they're just kids still") vs. positive (i.e. Kyle Snyder is the MAN for winning his World Championships while 18/19).  

Let's all agree that if they're 18+, they're men, by legal definition, and treat them as such.  The selective "coddling" ought to stop.  

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8 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

I think we all need to be very clear in that these individuals that we are referencing; we are referencing based on their performance first as "kids", but how they "flopped" as an "adult".  These are men when they get to college.  Calling them kids is a nice, nostalgic way to reference those that are younger than us, but the reality is, once they turn 18, they are no different than the MEN that are fighting overseas, taking bullets for their brethren.  These are men, and no longer "kids".  

If we "feel" that they are still "kids", then that opens the door to a whole bunch of other topics and conversations, not worth going into (drinking age, combat age, neurological age, etc.).  I find it disingenuous that the moral equivalency fails and the usage of the term "men" vs. "kids" only comes into play when it's potentially negative (i.e. "they're just kids still") vs. positive (i.e. Kyle Snyder is the MAN for winning his World Championships while 18/19).  

Let's all agree that if they're 18+, they're men, by legal definition, and treat them as such.  The selective "coddling" ought to stop.  

Slow clap

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14 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

I think we all need to be very clear in that these individuals that we are referencing; we are referencing based on their performance first as "kids", but how they "flopped" as an "adult".  These are men when they get to college.  Calling them kids is a nice, nostalgic way to reference those that are younger than us, but the reality is, once they turn 18, they are no different than the MEN that are fighting overseas, taking bullets for their brethren.  These are men, and no longer "kids".  

If we "feel" that they are still "kids", then that opens the door to a whole bunch of other topics and conversations, not worth going into (drinking age, combat age, neurological age, etc.).  I find it disingenuous that the moral equivalency fails and the usage of the term "men" vs. "kids" only comes into play when it's potentially negative (i.e. "they're just kids still") vs. positive (i.e. Kyle Snyder is the MAN for winning his World Championships while 18/19).  

Let's all agree that if they're 18+, they're men, by legal definition, and treat them as such.  The selective "coddling" ought to stop.  

I never meant them as kids because they were under 18 but more as you said: Younger age than myself.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

Why are you so triggered this morning?  Did I forget to get you your coffee within an acceptable time frame?

Would you agree or disagree to using injury as a determining factor as well?

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I think this is a relatively decent conversation to have. We marvel at those with exceptional talent, whether they succeed and blow our minds, or they do not capitalize on that talent, and again blow our minds. I don't think it is out of the norm to point out when someone exceptional fails to succeed at what they are perceived to be exceptional at. It is intriguing to say the least.

If I am going to put my vote in on this, I think Eric Grajales is definitely one of the bigger "busts" for me. If had hadn't salvaged his career with an AA finish to end his career, he would definitely be one of the bigger busts in the last 20 years.

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32 minutes ago, snapspinscore said:

I think this is a relatively decent conversation to have. We marvel at those with exceptional talent, whether they succeed and blow our minds, or they do not capitalize on that talent, and again blow our minds. I don't think it is out of the norm to point out when someone exceptional fails to succeed at what they are perceived to be exceptional at. It is intriguing to say the least.

If I am going to put my vote in on this, I think Eric Grajales is definitely one of the bigger "busts" for me. If had hadn't salvaged his career with an AA finish to end his career, he would definitely be one of the bigger busts in the last 20 years.

Brandon recruits that flippers could be its own thread 

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