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Returning Champ, Not Favorite

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While wholly acknowledging and appreciating that they were the best wrestler that particular weekend...

 

there have been some recent champs that, in the perception of those who follow the sport closely, would not be the favorite to repeat despite returning eligibility. 

 

Darian - 'well Suriano is back'

Cenzo - 'tough to run that gauntlet (IMar/Mass) again'

 

who in recent memory (say, last 20 yrs)

 

returned as champ with the 'he ain't repeating' tag?

 

Jaggers?

Johnny Thompson?

Dean Heil?

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While wholly acknowledging and appreciating that they were the best wrestler that particular weekend...

 

there have been some recent champs that, in the perception of those who follow the sport closely, would not be the favorite to repeat despite returning eligibility. 

 

Darian - 'well Suriano is back'

Cenzo - 'tough to run that gauntlet (IMar/Mass) again'

 

who in recent memory (say, last 20 yrs)

 

returned as champ with the 'he ain't repeating' tag?

 

Jaggers?

Johnny Thompson?

Dean Heil?

 I think Dake was the #4 seed his sophomore year (at 149).  Don't know if he was considered the favorite.

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Jaggers and Thompson were still legit picks for favorite in November, its just that they would promptly take a bunch of bad losses. Heil is kinda odd because everyone was saying someone would beat him, but no one really seemed sure who. I, for one, consider Cenzo the favorite. 

 

You are talking about guys considered DOA five minutes after stepping off the podium right?

Edited by hammerlockthree

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HL3 - 

 

very thoughtful to introduce timeframe.

 

initially - i was thinking 'as soon as he stepped off the mat'.

 

but changing the parameters to 'preseason' or 'after the first month' - drastically changes things.

 

Jaggers had some losses - was he a consensus to repeat (as soon as he stepped off the mat? preseason?)

 

Thompson lost a wrestle off.

 

Did anyone think Mark Branch was gonna win 4 after winning in '94? 

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Gwiz. I don't think many people gave him much of a chance vs Snyder.

 

Agree on Cruz/Joseph. Joseph has more upside, I think, with the awesome practice partners and coach in his corner.  I ain't betting against Heil.

 

I think the Gwiz/Snyder thing, leading up to the match, was tipping the scales in favor of Gwiz (ever so slightly).  Sure, Snyder just came off his first WC, but the rationale was (and still is in many threads) that he's undersized, Gwiz is already a 2x'er, athletic, etc.  It's interesting to know that Snyder has gotten even better since then... which is why the threads about Coon having a chance are fun to read.

 

I have nothing more to contribute to this thread.  Good day.

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HL3 - 

 

very thoughtful to introduce timeframe.

 

initially - i was thinking 'as soon as he stepped off the mat'.

 

but changing the parameters to 'preseason' or 'after the first month' - drastically changes things.

 

Jaggers had some losses - was he a consensus to repeat (as soon as he stepped off the mat? preseason?)

 

Thompson lost a wrestle off.

 

Did anyone think Mark Branch was gonna win 4 after winning in '94? 

 

By the time Thompson got pinned by Frishkorn, he was already notorious for showing up big in March. To my recollection, OSU fans were downright smug about it, so I think he was the favorite to a lot of people right up until Moore beat him. 

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Gwiz. I don't think many people gave him much of a chance vs Snyder.

 

Agree on Cruz/Joseph. Joseph has more upside, I think, with the awesome practice partners and coach in his corner. I ain't betting against Heil.

I think people were split fairly 50/50 on that match from what I recall. I know I was in the Gwiz camp.

 

Jarrod King comes to mind as a guy no one thought would repeat. Paul Donahoe was an unlikely champ as well, although he improved and made the finals again.

 

Gregor Gillespie upset Schlatter as a soph and probably wasn't favored to repeat. He did go into ncaas as the #1 seed next year. Jordan Leen won that year and was another unlikely champ.

 

Bosak won a title at 184 and ed Ruth moved up the next year, regulating him to the crowd of also-rans.

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Let's not talk further about gwiz/snyder - that was a bad nomination.

 

Dake is prolly a great one....unforeseen champ as FR...didn't exactly dominate....moves up a weight....hell yes - he fits

 

Pamela suggests Darrion Caldwell - imo 'I KNEW IT'. but idk what others thought really. tbh i thought it would 100% not be repeated. it wasn't. but he was hurt.

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Caldwell invented his legacy the same moment he tarnished Metcalf badly, it was kind of a disorienting time for wrestling fans. 

 

Plus he placed above metcalf at the US Open or WWTs a few months after. I don't think he qualifies. 

 

No offense shooting everyone down, I don't think anyone yet mentioned matches Darian Cruz in terms of how throughly he seemed to be dismissed by the wrestling public.  

Edited by hammerlockthree

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No offense shooting everyone down, I don't think anyone yet mentioned matches Darian Cruz in terms of how throughly he seemed to be dismissed by the wrestling public.  

 

It's amazing how little respect Cruz gets. 

 

http://www.wrestlingstats.com/lehigh/view_wrestlers.php?wrestler=842

 

He's had a great career.  Maybe he's under the radar because he wrestles for Lehigh and Flo guys aren't dangling from his jock, but still.  Wildly overlooked. 

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How about Cody Brewer entering the '15/'16 season, after winning as the 13th seed in 2015.  Myles Martin might be another....not many picked him to repeat last year, considering his move up to 184 (vs Dean).

Edited by gromit

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How about Cody Brewer entering the '15/'16 season, after winning as the 13th seed in 2015.  Myles Martin might be another....not many picked him to repeat last year, considering his move up to 184 (vs Dean).

Agree on Martin.  He would definitely have to go to the top of the list.

 

But, Brewer was definitely considered a top contender after winning it.  It was only later on when Brock pinned him and then Garrett took it to him, that any had doubt.  Still, with the way he stepped up at NCAA's the prior season, many still thought he had a solid chance to win it again.

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So far, not one post about how this thread is bashing the athletes. This thread is good, but mine I'd bad. Got it.

All about wording and presentation.  Also, having troll in your screen name doesn't help.

 

It was kind of like taking my daughter to get pictures with Santa.  She was fine going there, even to the point of getting her excited.  Then, we walk in.  A less than good mother(IMHO) was forcing her daughter(guessing about 3 years old) to sit on Santa's lap some distance away.  This girl was screaming/crying bloody murder.  My daughter watched/heard this and latched onto me like nothing you could imagine.  I would have had to peel skin off her to detach her.  So, at that point, Santa was death incarnate.  Presentation my friend.  Presentation.

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It's amazing how little respect Cruz gets. 

 

http://www.wrestlingstats.com/lehigh/view_wrestlers.php?wrestler=842

 

He's had a great career.  Maybe he's under the radar because he wrestles for Lehigh and Flo guys aren't dangling from his jock, but still.  Wildly overlooked. 

 

People doubt him because Suriano dominated their last matchup.  Understandable, but Cruz was wrestling at a different level at the end of last season compared to the first couple of months (see: reversal of result vs. Lizak).  

 

He should be considered the favorite until he loses again.  

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People doubt him because Suriano dominated their last matchup. Understandable, but Cruz was wrestling at a different level at the end of last season compared to the first couple of months (see: reversal of result vs. Lizak).

 

He should be considered the favorite until he loses again.

Favorite just means who I think will win. I don’t think Cruz will win. I don’t think he will be top 3 in fact. He is not the favorite in my mind.

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I bet if you had polled wrestling fans Dake would have been considered the favorite 1x.

I would say he wasn't considered the favorite his sophomore year with Darrion Caldwell being eligible, but he was the favorite as a junior and after beating Taylor at the allstar match he was also the favorite for many as a senior.

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After all star it seemed like most thought Taylor would turn it around. Said he wouldn’t wrestle so tentatively next time. Heck, I thought the same and I’m a Cornell/Dake fan. After the scuffle, perhaps the tide shifted. But not clearly. I’d say even then most expected Taylor.

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