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Husker_Du

Returning Champ, Not Favorite

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After all star it seemed like most thought Taylor would turn it around. Said he wouldn’t wrestle so tentatively next time. Heck, I thought the same and I’m a Cornell/Dake fan. After the scuffle, perhaps the tide shifted. But not clearly. I’d say even then most expected Taylor.

I don't know, I remember Flo at an event randomly walking up to wrestling fans asking Dake or Taylor shortly before the All star match and most were picking Dake. Also in a press conference the day of or before the event Taylor said it was an unusual experience for him to be going into a match were most people of the people there thought he was going to lose.

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I don't know, I remember Flo at an event randomly walking up to wrestling fans asking Dake or Taylor shortly before the All star match and most were picking Dake. Also in a press conference the day of or before the event Taylor said it was an unusual experience for him to be going into a match were most people of the people there thought he was going to lose.

i remember the flo video and recall it being even to favoring Taylor. I don’t recall if that was after all star and scuffle though.

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 I think Dake was the #4 seed his sophomore year (at 149).  Don't know if he was considered the favorite.

Dake looked venerable his sophomore season a few times and we knew so little about Caldwell due to him missing significant time. I recall really being excited about a Dake/Caldwell semi matchup but it was never to be. 

 

Hindsight and all that but I think it's fairly safe to say that Dake was definitely not favored to win it all going into that tourny but by the quarters he looked unstoppable. That was actually one of the greatest tourny runs I have ever seen as he only gave up something like 3-5 total points and one of them was for a penalty if memory serves. Regardless though, I personally thought Caldwell was the man that season given what he did/who he beat the year before but man oh man did Dake show up. 

 

Dake had some battles against some very good talent his first two seasons that I think gets looked past often given how well he did his final two seasons. His frosh year especially with that semi final victory (3-2TB I believe) he had over a guy (Humphrey) who was favored to win it all from the start of the season. Earlier in that season he lost to Reece their first meeting and then beat him the second meeting (I believe 1-0). So going into that semi final match up that was a big moment in his career. Looking back at his career... damn.. he really beat some great wrestlers. 

 

Humphrey twice, Marion, Taylor multiple times, Molinaro, St. John, etc. He went through guys with a total of four titles during his four years and multiple Olympic level wrestlers. I can't think of anytime else something like that has happened. Major respect for him. He certainly earned his four in a major way with never an easy road. 

Edited by cm_111

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Favorite just means who I think will win. I don’t think Cruz will win. I don’t think he will be top 3 in fact. He is not the favorite in my mind.

 

"Favorite" in the traditional sense refers to a general consensus.  Just because I think Forrest Przybysz is the favorite at 174 this year doesn't make it so.  

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Dake looked venerable his sophomore season a few times and we knew so little about Caldwell due to him missing significant time. I recall really being excited about a Dake/Caldwell semi matchup but it was never to be. 

 

Hindsight and all that but I think it's fairly safe to say that Dake was definitely not favored to win it all going into that tourny but by the quarters he looked unstoppable. That was actually one of the greatest tourny runs I have ever seen as he only gave up something like 3-5 total points and one of them was for a penalty if memory serves. Regardless though, I personally thought Caldwell was the man that season given what he did/who he beat the year before but man oh man did Dake show up. 

 

Dake had some battles against some very good talent his first two seasons that I think gets looked past often given how well he did his final two seasons. His frosh year especially with that semi final victory (3-2TB I believe) he had over a guy (Humphrey) who was favored to win it all from the start of the season. Looking back at his career... damn.. he really beat some great wrestlers. 

 

Did you mean venerable:  

1. commanding respect because of great age or impressive dignity; worthy of veneration or reverence, as because of high office or noble character: a venerable member of Congress. 2. a title for someone proclaimed by the Roman Catholic Church to have attained the first degree of sanctity or of an Anglican archdeacon.

 

... or vulnerable?

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Did you mean venerable:  

1. commanding respect because of great age or impressive dignity; worthy of veneration or reverence, as because of high office or noble character: a venerable member of Congress. 2. a title for someone proclaimed by the Roman Catholic Church to have attained the first degree of sanctity or of an Anglican archdeacon.

 

... or vulnerable?

 

I think he meant veritable

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How about Cody Brewer entering the '15/'16 season, after winning as the 13th seed in 2015.  Myles Martin might be another....not many picked him to repeat last year, considering his move up to 184 (vs Dean).

Brewer absolutely crushed his way through the tournament that year.  A lot of us thought he was a heavy favorite to repeat (turned out not to be the case).

 

Myles is a good one though.  No one picked him to win last year, and I don't think anyone is picking him to win this year.

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Dake looked venerable his sophomore season a few times and we knew so little about Caldwell due to him missing significant time. I recall really being excited about a Dake/Caldwell semi matchup but it was never to be. 

 

Hindsight and all that but I think it's fairly safe to say that Dake was definitely not favored to win it all going into that tourny but by the quarters he looked unstoppable. That was actually one of the greatest tourny runs I have ever seen as he only gave up something like 3-5 total points and one of them was for a penalty if memory serves. Regardless though, I personally thought Caldwell was the man that season given what he did/who he beat the year before but man oh man did Dake show up. 

 

Dake had some battles against some very good talent his first two seasons that I think gets looked past often given how well he did his final two seasons. His frosh year especially with that semi final victory (3-2TB I believe) he had over a guy (Humphrey) who was favored to win it all from the start of the season. Earlier in that season he lost to Reece their first meeting and then beat him the second meeting (I believe 1-0). So going into that semi final match up that was a big moment in his career. Looking back at his career... damn.. he really beat some great wrestlers. 

 

Humphrey twice, Marion, Taylor multiple times, Molinaro, St. John, etc. He went through guys with a total of four titles during his four years and multiple Olympic level wrestlers. I can't think of anytime else something like that has happened. Major respect for him. He certainly earned his four in a major way with never an easy road. 

 

Dake looked venerable his sophomore season a few times and we knew so little about Caldwell due to him missing significant time. I recall really being excited about a Dake/Caldwell semi matchup but it was never to be. 

 

Hindsight and all that but I think it's fairly safe to say that Dake was definitely not favored to win it all going into that tourny but by the quarters he looked unstoppable. That was actually one of the greatest tourny runs I have ever seen as he only gave up something like 3-5 total points and one of them was for a penalty if memory serves. Regardless though, I personally thought Caldwell was the man that season given what he did/who he beat the year before but man oh man did Dake show up. 

 

Dake had some battles against some very good talent his first two seasons that I think gets looked past often given how well he did his final two seasons. His frosh year especially with that semi final victory (3-2TB I believe) he had over a guy (Humphrey) who was favored to win it all from the start of the season. Earlier in that season he lost to Reece their first meeting and then beat him the second meeting (I believe 1-0). So going into that semi final match up that was a big moment in his career. Looking back at his career... damn.. he really beat some great wrestlers. 

 

Humphrey twice, Marion, Taylor multiple times, Molinaro, St. John, etc. He went through guys with a total of four titles during his four years and multiple Olympic level wrestlers. I can't think of anytime else something like that has happened. Major respect for him. He certainly earned his four in a major way with never an easy road. 

 

Dake was able to wrestle so many finalists/champs because he changed weights every year. Hard for a guy to be a 4x champ at one weight and wrestle 5 different finalists.

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Dake looked venerable his sophomore season a few times and we knew so little about Caldwell due to him missing significant time. I recall really being excited about a Dake/Caldwell semi matchup but it was never to be. 

 

Hindsight and all that but I think it's fairly safe to say that Dake was definitely not favored to win it all going into that tourny but by the quarters he looked unstoppable. That was actually one of the greatest tourny runs I have ever seen as he only gave up something like 3-5 total points and one of them was for a penalty if memory serves. Regardless though, I personally thought Caldwell was the man that season given what he did/who he beat the year before but man oh man did Dake show up. 

 

Dake had some battles against some very good talent his first two seasons that I think gets looked past often given how well he did his final two seasons. His frosh year especially with that semi final victory (3-2TB I believe) he had over a guy (Humphrey) who was favored to win it all from the start of the season. Earlier in that season he lost to Reece their first meeting and then beat him the second meeting (I believe 1-0). So going into that semi final match up that was a big moment in his career. Looking back at his career... damn.. he really beat some great wrestlers. 

 

Humphrey twice, Marion, Taylor multiple times, Molinaro, St. John, etc. He went through guys with a total of four titles during his four years and multiple Olympic level wrestlers. I can't think of anytime else something like that has happened. Major respect for him. He certainly earned his four in a major way with never an easy road. 

Fun trivia fact is that of Dake's last three finals opponents (Molinaro, St. John, Taylor) all three won a title the following year.  That is a pretty solid crop of wrestlers to beat

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I would say he wasn't considered the favorite his sophomore year with Darrion Caldwell being eligible, but he was the favorite as a junior and after beating Taylor at the allstar match he was also the favorite for many as a senior.

"....for many" not in the Happy Valley kool aid range

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Dake was able to wrestle so many finalists/champs because he changed weights every year. Hard for a guy to be a 4x champ at one weight and wrestle 5 different finalists.

ok Cael won it at two weights but he did wrestle a decent # of finalists, at NCAAs only you have Eggum, Jones, Trenge, Cormier, Vering, Rohn. Mark Schultz was a 3 timer at 167 and 177, and wrestled (again just at NCAAs) finalists Deanna, Banach, Goldman, Hummel, Reich, Jim Scheer. 

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Dake was able to wrestle so many finalists/champs because he changed weights every year. Hard for a guy to be a 4x champ at one weight and wrestle 5 different finalists.

 

Here's a copy-paste of a post I made about 4-1/2 years ago...

 

I may be missing a match or two... but Mike Frick has a pretty good history v. national champs (and finalists). During his career, Frick beat 7 different national champs a total of 8 times, in competition at 5 different weight classes. Although Frick's heaviest NCAA weight class was 134, 4 of the 7 champs he beat won their titles at 142 or higher. Frick's record:

 

WINS:

Dec-72: Sherman (IA), 9-7 @ 118. Sherman was NCAA champ @ 118, '73

Jan-73: Breece (OK), 14-4 @ 126. Breece was NCAA champ @ 118, '74

Feb-73: Martin (Ok St), 7-6 @ 126 (All Star Classic)

Dec-73: Milkovich (Mich St), 2-0 @ 126. Milkovich was NCAA champ @ 126 in '74

Mar-75: Barrett (Ok State), 8-2 @ 134. Barrett was NCAA champ @ 142 in '77

Mar-75: Beatson (OK), 10-5 @ 134 - Frick wins 1st NCAA title & OW award

Dec-75: Churella (Mich), 7-1 @ 150 (Midlands). Churella was a 3x champ

Jan-76: Bennett (Yale), 8-3 @ 150. Bennett was NCAA champ @ 142 in '75

Feb-76 Smith (IA), 10-4 @ 142 (All Star Classic). Smith was NCAA champ @ 142 in '76

Mar-76: Milkovich (Mich St), 7-4 @ 134. Frick wins 2nd NCAA title

 

LOSSES:

Jan-73: Glass (IA St), LBF @ 126.

Feb-74: Fritz (PSU), 4-3 @ 126. Fritz was NCAA champ @ 126 in 1975

Mar-74: Fritz (PSU), 8-6 @ 126.

Mar-74: Fritz (PSU), 7-2 @ 126.

 

TIES:

Jan-74: Glass (IA St), 3-3 @ 126

Jan-76: Smith (IA), 4-4 @ 142

 

Total:

10-4-2 (68.8%) vs. NCAA finalists

8-3-1 (70.8%) vs. NCAA champs

 

Addtional tidbit: In Frick's junior year, he won the NCAA title and OW award by winning 6 matches (he had a pigtail). All six of his opponents made All-American during their careers.

 

Results compliments of Boomer's database.     

 

thread:  http://board.themat.com/index.php?/topic/59-who-has-the-best-record-vs-ncaa-finalists/&do=findComment&comment=2286     

Edited by lu_alum

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ok Cael won it at two weights but he did wrestle a decent # of finalists, at NCAAs only you have Eggum, Jones, Trenge, Cormier, Vering, Rohn. Mark Schultz was a 3 timer at 167 and 177, and wrestled (again just at NCAAs) finalists Deanna, Banach, Goldman, Hummel, Reich, Jim Scheer. 

 

In the same thread that I copied from above, someone posted Carl's record v NCAA finalists as 26-0.

 

bwh27 said

I'll probably miss some, but here's a beginning to Cael's record against NCAA finalists (SPOILER ALERT: IT'S 100%)

 

Wins: Mark Munoz (2), Vertus Jones (2), Brad Vering (2), Brandon Eggum (5), Damion Hahn (1), Daniel Cormier (6), Rob Rohn (1), Josh Lambrecht (3), Scott Barker (2), Jon Trenge (2)

 

So that's 26-0 with 14 of those wins by bonus. Not too shabby.

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Here's a copy-paste of a post I made about 4-1/2 years ago...

 

I may be missing a match or two... but Mike Frick has a pretty good history v. national champs (and finalists). During his career, Frick beat 7 different national champs a total of 8 times, in competition at 5 different weight classes. Although Frick's heaviest NCAA weight class was 134, 4 of the 7 champs he beat won their titles at 142 or higher. Frick's record:

 

WINS:

Dec-72: Sherman (IA), 9-7 @ 118. Sherman was NCAA champ @ 118, '73

Jan-73: Breece (OK), 14-4 @ 126. Breece was NCAA champ @ 118, '74

Feb-73: Martin (Ok St), 7-6 @ 126 (All Star Classic)

Dec-73: Milkovich (Mich St), 2-0 @ 126. Milkovich was NCAA champ @ 126 in '74

Mar-75: Barrett (Ok State), 8-2 @ 134. Barrett was NCAA champ @ 142 in '77

Mar-75: Beatson (OK), 10-5 @ 134 - Frick wins 1st NCAA title & OW award

Dec-75: Churella (Mich), 7-1 @ 150 (Midlands). Churella was a 3x champ

Jan-76: Bennett (Yale), 8-3 @ 150. Bennett was NCAA champ @ 142 in '75

Feb-76 Smith (IA), 10-4 @ 142 (All Star Classic). Smith was NCAA champ @ 142 in '76

Mar-76: Milkovich (Mich St), 7-4 @ 134. Frick wins 2nd NCAA title

 

LOSSES:

Jan-73: Glass (IA St), LBF @ 126.

Feb-74: Fritz (PSU), 4-3 @ 126. Fritz was NCAA champ @ 126 in 1975

Mar-74: Fritz (PSU), 8-6 @ 126.

Mar-74: Fritz (PSU), 7-2 @ 126.

 

TIES:

Jan-74: Glass (IA St), 3-3 @ 126

Jan-76: Smith (IA), 4-4 @ 142

 

Total:

10-4-2 (68.8%) vs. NCAA finalists

8-3-1 (70.8%) vs. NCAA champs

 

Addtional tidbit: In Frick's junior year, he won the NCAA title and OW award by winning 6 matches (he had a pigtail). All six of his opponents made All-American during their careers.

 

Results compliments of Boomer's database.     

 

thread:  http://board.themat.com/index.php?/topic/59-who-has-the-best-record-vs-ncaa-finalists/&do=findComment&comment=2286     

That is some cool trivia!

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Benion from IL won it in '95 as a #7 seed. He unexpectedly made the finals again in '96 as a #6 seed (losing to Joe Williams), then took 3rd in '97 (Williams won again).

 

Holker from ISU won @ 141 in 2002 as a #5 seed. Took 7th the following year (also as #5 seed).

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Howe is a good one - even his Senior year he got little respect.  I was thinking of Nelson his senior year - he got about as much respect at Heil gets - and no one thought it was an upset when he lost to Gwiz.

 

The other guy was Maples - he went up a weight and seemed to lose his Mojo - ended up 7th I think after going undefeated or almost the year he won. 

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What about Andrew Howe his junior year. It seems to me that most thought Burroughs would win.

 

I remember opposite.

 

JB was coming off a medical redshirt and going up a weightclass. Howe won the US Open that summer and came in 2nd at WTTs in 2 very close matches with Paulson. Coming into the season Howe was strong favorite and many thought he was the future for the US on the Senior Level.

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I remember opposite.

 

JB was coming off a medical redshirt and going up a weightclass. Howe won the US Open that summer and came in 2nd at WTTs in 2 very close matches with Paulson. Coming into the season Howe was strong favorite and many thought he was the future for the US on the Senior Level.

Agreed.  Howe was at least a 50/50 going into their match and his getting injured that year sucked for everyone.  I was really looking forward to the rematch at NCAA's, which still almost happened(Caldwell snuck by him in OT.)

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