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Wrestling live ?


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#1 executionery4145

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 06:06 PM

I’m currently coaching at a high school . One of the assistant been having them wrestle lot of live . They start out in a circle and group rotates while the one stays in their station . During the live wrestling there’s often times when the wrestlers are wrestling someone who is way out of their weight class . My question is is it a bad thing or a good thing ? Can it increase chances of injuries ?

#2 TripNSweep

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 07:38 PM

I follow the advice of Steve Martin on this who said that practices should mostly be drilling and very little live.  In the past when I coached it was the other way around for me, but a lot of times going live doesn't give kids the chance to work on technique, rather they just fight to survive and make mistakes so when they do actually wrestle a match they aren't as sure about their technique.  


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Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#3 executionery4145

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 11:57 AM

Also during live he has having them wrestle with guy that are way bigger like a 108 pounder wrestling a heavyweight

#4 TripNSweep

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 01:37 PM

If you insist on going live like that then just break them up into groups of 3 or 4 so there isn't a huge weight disparity.  Just call out numbers between 1 and 3 or 1 and 4 and go through it that way.  Just flat out tell the guy that injuries are going to happen if you have big weight differences.  I broke my ankle messing around in practice once wrestling a heavyweight and I was a 135 at the time.  


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#5 executionery4145

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 02:47 PM

I’m not the one doing that I’m totally against it one of the assists is doing that way

#6 TripNSweep

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 05:18 PM

If you're the head coach tell him to do it or he's out.  If you're an assistant tell the head coach and have him do it.  That would be stupid to lose a kid because you have a big weight disparity where somebody could get hurt wrestling live.  At most maybe 20 lbs, but that is entirely dependent on skill level.  


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#7 PSUMike

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 08:34 AM

Live wrestling is a necessary part of practice. Having a lightweight go with a heavyweight is not. Keep them in smaller groups of like-sized wrestlers. Having your smallest guy go with a big guy is a recipe for injury. 



#8 TripNSweep

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 07:04 PM

Live wrestling is a necessary part of practice. Having a lightweight go with a heavyweight is not. Keep them in smaller groups of like-sized wrestlers. Having your smallest guy go with a big guy is a recipe for injury. 

 

I respectfully disagree.  I think any live should be confined to situational positions and should be kept to a minimum.  


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#9 takedownartist

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 11:09 PM

Also during live he has having them wrestle with guy that are way bigger like a 108 pounder wrestling a heavyweight

 

He is unfit to coach.

Safety should always come first.


 "Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own" - Bruce Lee


#10 vhsalum

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:33 AM

I respectfully disagree.  I think any live should be confined to situational positions and should be kept to a minimum.  

 

It honestly depends on the level of your team.  Low to mid-level?  Yeah, the primary focus should be drilling to get that muscle memory.

 

As they get better, and the competition gets better, they are going to need to live wrestle more.  Drilling cannot replace the feel of live, the chain wrestling that occurs, the feel that you need.  It would be nice if we could drill EVERYTHING, all the time, every week.  But it's impossible.  They need to learn how to actually wrestle as well.  Situational live goes are great, and allow you to build some muscle memory with a live feel.  But athletes have to wrestle to get better at it, and more importantly, they have to wrestle without 'instruction' - every athlete is different, and while there are general principles, without a good base of wrestling live, they will miss out on the endless possibilities our sport presents.

I can always tell when a "good" guy comes from a relatively drill heavy team.  They just don't have a feel for what comes next.  I'm sure that sounds confusing, but the guys that are scrambling (and I don't mean roll to your back), the guys that are scoring late, the guys that are defending a leg attack for 40 seconds - those guys have a lot of live in their practice structure.

 

And Martin had a lot things going for him.  His guys wrestled year round, they competed OFTEN (live wrestling) and he was such a meat grinder of a coach, that he created just tough dudes.  

You have to have hours and days of live wrestling.  You have to wrestle matches often.  Hopefully you can get them understanding the concept of sparring.

There is absolutely a medium and a balance you have to find.  Getting as close to 50/50 for high school teams is a big deal.  You really can't go just drill intensive, because they will miss out on the higher level stuff that can't be taught, and must be felt repeatedly.  And you can't just let them live wrestle to death and create bad habits.


Edited by vhsalum, 06 December 2017 - 04:36 AM.

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#11 AnklePicker

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 09:12 AM

Not to mention wrestlers, especially kids, LIKE TO WRESTLE LIVE. It's the fun part of the sport for most. We learn technique, drill it, spar it, work it in live situations, hit the technique then wrestle live once the guy is in but we flat out live wrestle for around 15-20 min each day. That's usually in a 3 man group. 106 pounders wrestling HWTs is ridiculous.

#12 sgallan

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:10 AM

I respectfully disagree. I think any live should be confined to situational positions and should be kept to a minimum.

If you don't wrestle live you won't get kids out nor will they stay on the team. Kids want to wrestle live, that is the fun part of practice.

#13 oldcougar

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:47 PM

I used several different methods of live wrestling.  Situational wrestling of course.  We did a lot of 10-15 second starts to teach the kids how it feels to be down 3 points with 10 seconds to go, and how to handle it from both top and bottom.  You can think up your own 'critical' situations that teach your kids how it feels to be there before it happens in real life.

 

We were at our league championship tourney (about 23 teams) and were vying for the lead when one of our kids in the finals was losing by 4 with 7 seconds to go, threw a peterson, scored 5 and won the tourney.  So did we.  To a lot of kids that doesn't come naturally.  You've got to put them in the position and give them the opportunity to do it in practice.

 

Maybe 20% of our practices were situational live drills.  But as sgallon says, you gotta let them wrestle live because that's where the fun is.  We'd set up groups of 5 or 6 kids by age/weight (youth program, 5 to 13), put one guy in the middle and let the other kids rotate in. When the kid in the middle has faced all the others, the next kid goes in.  Great for conditioning and great fun too.

 

I guess our practices were 50% drills, 20% situational live wrestling, and 25% live action, with some time spent teaching wrestling philosophy.  Maybe a HS team will be happy with nothing but drilling moves.  But a youth program kid would be gone in a week if all he did was drill. 


Edited by oldcougar, 07 December 2017 - 01:49 PM.


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#14 TripNSweep

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 10:32 PM

I just feel going live encourages a lot of bad habits.  Maybe as kids are farther along, like upperclassmen or more advanced technically more is OK, but drill heavy and being able to know how to react in common positions/situations is a must.  Going live encourages working at what you know and are good at because you don't want to get scored on, but drilling technique and going live in situationals is better because you are forcing them to work on what they might not be forced to do otherwise.  


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.




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