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California likely boycotting Ironman

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Also hurt the Beast when NY left.  Ohio is once again represented at the Beast with St Paris Graham back amongst others.  It would be nice to bring the Beast back to the top because teams from NJ (besides Blair) would be eligible to compete.  

 

I think the East Coast teams love having Cali teams come east.  Just makes for better competition.

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NY has difficulty leaving the state for anything (not just wrestling) where there are Prep schools involved. 

I think Ohio is limited to bordering states for the most part (Lebron James rule) other than I think once per year or two. When Blair and Ed wrestled, they had to find a place in Pa to have the meet.

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Anytime a tournament loses a national presence it loses some relevance. Examples, the Beast used to own best tournament. Reno was easily top three. Now Doc B is the best out west. NHSCA senior nationals had everybody save PA kids that went to Dapper Dan. Now it is just another tough tournament that a lot of the top guys skip. You cannot blow off an entire half of the country (which is what will happen) and continue to be the number one go to tournament. It may take 2-3 years but Ironman will become a Midwest tournament with Blair, and some PA teams, versus a true national tournament. The the blood round of quarters will trend to semis like most tournaments. Maybe that is what they want? Perusse, with all his flaws understood the dynamic.

Edited by sgallan

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An entire state boycotting because one kid didn't pass a skin check? Sounds like cutting off your head to fix a tooth ache.

Not really. It takes a national tournament and makes it an (eventual) regional tournament. Ironman no longer becomes the tournament where all the best gather. Just a really good, but another regional tournament. Rule one when trying to put forth the best national product is not to instead become a niche tournament. Remember when NHSCA could gather Gallick, Simmons, Bunch, Lee, Debuque, and Palimino all in one weight. Or Schlatter and Metcalf were the final. Then Ironman without Martinez, or Z Valencia missing? Consider it in those terms and get back to me.

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Not really. It takes a national tournament and makes it an (eventual) regional tournament. Ironman no longer becomes the tournament where all the best gather. Just a really good, but another regional tournament. Rule one when trying to put forth the best national product is not to instead become a niche tournament. Remember when NHSCA could gather Gallick, Simmons, Bunch, Lee, Debuque, and Palimino all in one weight. Or Schlatter and Metcalf were the final. Then Ironman without Martinez, or Z Valencia missing? Consider it in those terms and get back to me.

You didn't answer the question. Was it really about one kid failing a skin check? Do they allow infected California kids free rein out there or is there more to the story here?

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Anytime a tournament loses a national presence it loses some relevance. Examples, the Beast used to own best tournament. Reno was easily top three. Now Doc B is the best out west. NHSCA senior nationals had everybody save PA kids that went to Dapper Dan. Now it is just another tough tournament that a lot of the top guys skip. You cannot blow off an entire half of the country (which is what will happen) and continue to be the number one go to tournament. It may take 2-3 years but Ironman will become a Midwest tournament with Blair, and some PA teams, versus a true national tournament. The the blood round of quarters will trend to semis like most tournaments. Maybe that is what they want? Perusse, with all his flaws understood the dynamic.

Pa hardly attends anymore, outside of the Prep teams. I used to love the Ironman, now I don't even watch it. Like watching the Natl Preps. Blair or Wyoming vs. the rest of the country

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I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that the skin infection was pretty nasty. It's not like they didn't want Nevills to wrestle. Doctor's notes can be overruled I believe and obviously in this case. Sucks for Nevills and his family and coaches but skin crap is a problem in our sport and there were a ton of matches on those mats.

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I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that the skin infection was pretty nasty. It's not like they didn't want Nevills to wrestle. Doctor's notes can be overruled I believe and obviously in this case. Sucks for Nevills and his family and coaches but skin crap is a problem in our sport and there were a ton of matches on those mats.

I don't know for sure but I will say it is not uncommon for kids that age to have bad acne. Probably the reason for the doctors note and why they PO'd he was DQ'd.

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Why does someone say that California, this huge geographical entity is just going to boycott? That's silly. Sounds like Adam has a great reason to be pissed and sure Clovis is probably done with these guys, but the whole state?  Yeah, that makes sense. 

 

Change "California", to "Clovis and maybe a few others".

 

I bet the adults that coach teams will want to make their own choices.

 

Sounds like a ding to the event nevertheless. Losing that pipeline is not good. Clovis guys are class acts.

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Acne can be the portal for infections. Ringworm or herpes. You have an open pore and come in contact with another person infected it spreads

 

They weren't so picky back in the old days. When I was a soph I wrestled a kid that had severe acne all over is face, neck, and shoulders (white head giant swollen zits at that). Still grosses me out to this day.

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Why does someone say that California, this huge geographical entity is just going to boycott? That's silly. Sounds like Adam has a great reason to be pissed and sure Clovis is probably done with these guys, but the whole state? Yeah, that makes sense.

 

Change "California", to "Clovis and maybe a few others".

 

I bet the adults that coach teams will want to make their own choices.

 

Sounds like a ding to the event nevertheless. Losing that pipeline is not good. Clovis guys are class acts.

So goes Clovis/Buchanan So goes Central California where the best wrestling is. They are all fierce competitors but have been competing with each other since various kids were little. It is an expensive trip, I don't expect to see many kids from California heading out there going forward. As usual success breeds over confidence. As soon as the tournament changed hands prior tournaments results became hard to find. Legacy is what makes these things work. They are at risk of not being far and away the best. Reno used to be top three, not anymore though this year they upped there game. Beast was the best for a long time. I remember an NHSCA bracket with Debuque, Simmons, Bunch, Lee, Gallick, Palimino, and a couple other AA"s, and a couple other solid careers. Now it is a 10-25 ranked tournament. Edited by sgallan

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Here's a question: If a trainer passes a kid through a skin check that then goes on to infect an entire tournament with a skin disease, is that trainer liable?  My guess is that if a rule says that a kid with sores can't compete, a doctor's note means nothing because it is the trainer's career that is on the line.  

 

Unless this coach thinks there was some conspiracy to prevent an athlete from competing, it is ridiculous to expect a note to overrule the observation of a trainer.  If i were this trainer I would need to speak to the doctor on the phone and have confirmation that within the previous couple of days, the sores in question had been tested and shown not to be herpes.  

 

Did this coach notify the tournament in advance that he was entering an athlete with this condition or did he expect to slide him through the skin check? 

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Regarding the Nevill's skin situation...I was there in the room when this all went down. The infected area was right on his face and didn't look good. He did have a note that said he had impetigo. One of our guys didn't like the way it looked and sent him to the doctor on-site for a second look. The doctor didn't think it was impetigo and thought it was Herpes instead. Our doctor asked Adam if he could get a hold of the Nevills's doctor so that he could speak to him. It took a little while because of the time difference, but our doctor did speak to Nevills's doctor and his doctor could not say that it wasn't Herpes because he couldn't verify that a skin culture had been done.Furthermore, per the date on the skin form, he hadn't been under antibiotic treatment long enough anyway.

 

The bottom line is that the Ironman committee and doctor did everything they could to keep Nevills in the tournament. It's a crappy situation, but it wasn't handled absolutely correctly. We cannot put hundreds of wrestlers and 24 officials at risk because of one individual.

 

It would be a shame if California schools boycott this great event because one coach didn't like the outcome of a professional and expert decision that was made in the name of safety to ALL those competing in the tournament.

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Regarding the Nevill's skin situation...I was there in the room when this all went down. The infected area was right on his face and didn't look good. He did have a note that said he had impetigo. One of our guys didn't like the way it looked and sent him to the doctor on-site for a second look. The doctor didn't think it was impetigo and thought it was Herpes instead. Our doctor asked Adam if he could get a hold of the Nevills's doctor so that he could speak to him. It took a little while because of the time difference, but our doctor did speak to Nevills's doctor and his doctor could not say that it wasn't Herpes because he couldn't verify that a skin culture had been done.Furthermore, per the date on the skin form, he hadn't been under antibiotic treatment long enough anyway.

 

The bottom line is that the Ironman committee and doctor did everything they could to keep Nevills in the tournament. It's a crappy situation, but it wasn't handled absolutely correctly. We cannot put hundreds of wrestlers and 24 officials at risk because of one individual.

 

It would be a shame if California schools boycott this great event because one coach didn't like the outcome of a professional and expert decision that was made in the name of safety to ALL those competing in the tournament.

 

I wasn't going to respond since what's done is done, but since we're going with "first hand" accounts...

 

This is half true.  The skin had been cultured.  It had come back positive for impetigo.  It had been treated for impetigo.  And it had been treated long enough (5 days).  It was on the proper form with the proper information and done by a board certified dermatologist.  And, it wasn't herpes.

 

Your non-skin doctor (general local guy who has never treated a skin disease) by LOOKS ALONE wanted the dermatologist who treated the infection to GUARANTEE him with 100% certainty that it was not both impetigo and herpes.  And since our dermatologist could not provide a guarantee on her medical license, we spent thousands of dollars to fly to Ohio to have a non-skin guy go on a gut instinct instead of a medical professional in the area of skin's opinion, culture, and treatment.  Good form Ironman.  We did our part to help the doctor make a good decision by letting him speak with the dermatologist, and at the end of the day, the tournament and its staff failed us.

 

Here's the best part.  We came back with herpes from the tournament.  We had the only athlete required to demonstrate with absolutely medical certainty that a skin condition was something other than what it was marked and treated for.  Yet, apparently that standard didn't apply to other wrestlers.

 

As I told all of you at the event -- you've seen us for the last time.  The bad news is, I think some others feel the same way.  When you start feeling you are the show, it's often the same result as when you feel you've become a good enough coach or a good enough wrestler.  The tournament is only as good as those in attendance.

 

Adam T.

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