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California likely boycotting Ironman


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#21 Billyhoyle

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 06:31 PM

Here's a question: If a trainer passes a kid through a skin check that then goes on to infect an entire tournament with a skin disease, is that trainer liable?  My guess is that if a rule says that a kid with sores can't compete, a doctor's note means nothing because it is the trainer's career that is on the line.  

 

Unless this coach thinks there was some conspiracy to prevent an athlete from competing, it is ridiculous to expect a note to overrule the observation of a trainer.  If i were this trainer I would need to speak to the doctor on the phone and have confirmation that within the previous couple of days, the sores in question had been tested and shown not to be herpes.  

 

Did this coach notify the tournament in advance that he was entering an athlete with this condition or did he expect to slide him through the skin check? 


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#22 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:59 PM

Billy the trainer protects himself with doctor notes (after all he/she is merely a trainer) and errors on the side of caution where there are no notes.      What's the point of doctors examining the kids  if the trainer knows better ?    



#23 OfficialObserver

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 02:08 AM

Regarding the Nevill's skin situation...I was there in the room when this all went down. The infected area was right on his face and didn't look good. He did have a note that said he had impetigo. One of our guys didn't like the way it looked and sent him to the doctor on-site for a second look. The doctor didn't think it was impetigo and thought it was Herpes instead. Our doctor asked Adam if he could get a hold of the Nevills's doctor so that he could speak to him. It took a little while because of the time difference, but our doctor did speak to Nevills's doctor and his doctor could not say that it wasn't Herpes because he couldn't verify that a skin culture had been done.Furthermore, per the date on the skin form, he hadn't been under antibiotic treatment long enough anyway.

 

The bottom line is that the Ironman committee and doctor did everything they could to keep Nevills in the tournament. It's a crappy situation, but it wasn't handled absolutely correctly. We cannot put hundreds of wrestlers and 24 officials at risk because of one individual.

 

It would be a shame if California schools boycott this great event because one coach didn't like the outcome of a professional and expert decision that was made in the name of safety to ALL those competing in the tournament.


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#24 tirapell

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 07:00 AM

Regarding the Nevill's skin situation...I was there in the room when this all went down. The infected area was right on his face and didn't look good. He did have a note that said he had impetigo. One of our guys didn't like the way it looked and sent him to the doctor on-site for a second look. The doctor didn't think it was impetigo and thought it was Herpes instead. Our doctor asked Adam if he could get a hold of the Nevills's doctor so that he could speak to him. It took a little while because of the time difference, but our doctor did speak to Nevills's doctor and his doctor could not say that it wasn't Herpes because he couldn't verify that a skin culture had been done.Furthermore, per the date on the skin form, he hadn't been under antibiotic treatment long enough anyway.

 

The bottom line is that the Ironman committee and doctor did everything they could to keep Nevills in the tournament. It's a crappy situation, but it wasn't handled absolutely correctly. We cannot put hundreds of wrestlers and 24 officials at risk because of one individual.

 

It would be a shame if California schools boycott this great event because one coach didn't like the outcome of a professional and expert decision that was made in the name of safety to ALL those competing in the tournament.

 

I wasn't going to respond since what's done is done, but since we're going with "first hand" accounts...

 

This is half true.  The skin had been cultured.  It had come back positive for impetigo.  It had been treated for impetigo.  And it had been treated long enough (5 days).  It was on the proper form with the proper information and done by a board certified dermatologist.  And, it wasn't herpes.

 

Your non-skin doctor (general local guy who has never treated a skin disease) by LOOKS ALONE wanted the dermatologist who treated the infection to GUARANTEE him with 100% certainty that it was not both impetigo and herpes.  And since our dermatologist could not provide a guarantee on her medical license, we spent thousands of dollars to fly to Ohio to have a non-skin guy go on a gut instinct instead of a medical professional in the area of skin's opinion, culture, and treatment.  Good form Ironman.  We did our part to help the doctor make a good decision by letting him speak with the dermatologist, and at the end of the day, the tournament and its staff failed us.

 

Here's the best part.  We came back with herpes from the tournament.  We had the only athlete required to demonstrate with absolutely medical certainty that a skin condition was something other than what it was marked and treated for.  Yet, apparently that standard didn't apply to other wrestlers.

 

As I told all of you at the event -- you've seen us for the last time.  The bad news is, I think some others feel the same way.  When you start feeling you are the show, it's often the same result as when you feel you've become a good enough coach or a good enough wrestler.  The tournament is only as good as those in attendance.

 

Adam T.


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#25 GuillermoBilletas

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:08 AM

Ironman needs to bring back Bob Preusse and Billy Tickets to restore this event to its former glory.  bring back the longest thread in America


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#26 TobusRex

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 01:12 PM

If a kid has impetigo I don't see how he can be allowed to wrestle. Wikipedia says it's contagious.



#27 potentiallydangerous

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 05:56 PM

If a kid has impetigo I don't see how he can be allowed to wrestle. Wikipedia says it's contagious.

If he was on antibiotics for several days and the skin was dried out, no pus or fluid to spread germs, it would be ok to wrestle.

The demand by the Ohio doctor to be 100% certain it wasn't impetigo plus herpes is ridiculous. The California dermatologist should have nipped that in the bud by saying there was no reason to culture for herpes since he didn't have any blisters typical of herpes (I'm presuming that to be true since she told him it was impetigo and not herpes.)
If a tournament is going to have an idiot doctor who doesn't know how ignorant he is to screen athletes, they'd be better off with a trainer only.

Edited by potentiallydangerous, 18 December 2017 - 06:00 PM.


#28 TobusRex

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 06:20 PM

If he was on antibiotics for several days and the skin was dried out, no pus or fluid to spread germs, it would be ok to wrestle.

The demand by the Ohio doctor to be 100% certain it wasn't impetigo plus herpes is ridiculous. The California dermatologist should have nipped that in the bud by saying there was no reason to culture for herpes since he didn't have any blisters typical of herpes (I'm presuming that to be true since she told him it was impetigo and not herpes.)
If a tournament is going to have an idiot doctor who doesn't know how ignorant he is to screen athletes, they'd be better off with a trainer only.

 

the thing that struck me is that it's highly contagious and can be spread by bodily fluids through "lesions". If the sores are on his face, which is subject to crossfaces....well, I'd say he probably shouldn't wrestle. More than once I inflicted bloody noses on kids (and had them inflicted on me) from crossfaces. If his blood gets on a kid's forearm, what happens? Does the impetigo spread? I don't know, just spitballin'.



#29 fanta

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 12:26 AM

the thing that struck me is that it's highly contagious and can be spread by bodily fluids through "lesions". If the sores are on his face, which is subject to crossfaces....well, I'd say he probably shouldn't wrestle. More than once I inflicted bloody noses on kids (and had them inflicted on me) from crossfaces. If his blood gets on a kid's forearm, what happens? Does the impetigo spread? I don't know, just spitballin'.

 

Is that a fact, Doctor??



#30 Zebra

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 01:18 AM

Two on-site doctor stories one where he was wrong and the other where he was correct. Both of which had a direct impact on my family, specifically my son. Both of these incidents were while he was in high school at events sanctioned by the various state associations therefore under the exact same rules as this topic. In the following by "note" I mean the proper skin form.

 

The first time we were attending a big tournament. By big I mean 24 teams so there were 300ish kids. One wrestler showed up with what everybody knew was active ringworm all over his face and upper body. He had a Dr’s note saying he had been under treatment for more than 72 hours and he was safe to wrestle. It was obvious to everybody this was still active and the treatment was not working. The kid should not be wrestling. Several coaches (and parents) complained but the on-site Dr simply referred to the Dr’s note and said the kid was ok. Over the course of the next two weeks we found out that every team had kids who contracted ringworm. Our team got it so bad they had to stop practice for a week, have everybody see a Dr, then strip out and completely disinfect the wrestling room. We had to drop out of 2 dual meets and a tournament because of the wide spread contagion.

 

The second was even more personal. My son had what looked like a typical teenager zit growing on his cheek. He had a tournament scheduled on the weekend so we took him to a doctor Monday morning ensuring he would meet the 72 hour requirement. He was given both a topical and oral medication and a note saying it was just acne and OK to wrestle. It didn’t exactly go away during the week; in fact it got redder. At the Friday weighin the on-site DR said under no circumstances would he let my son wrestle. We were furious of course because followed the proper procedures, taken vacation time from work, spent money on travel, etc., and after all it was just a zit. By Monday the zit had continued to grow and erupted like Mt. Vesuvius. As it turns out it was not a zit but a form or MRSA. We had to have a specialist inject some real powerful antibiotics and a steroid directly into the monstrosity on his face. A few days later it had to be lanced and drained and to this day he has a “hole” in his cheek. Now the surface skin closed up so it’s more of a depression but it is a reminder of what can happen.

 

Two stories one where the on-site DR followed the note and everybody got infection and one where he overruled the note and potentially saved a bunch of kids a nasty exposure to MRSA.

 

In short we are talking about kids' health here not a wrestling tournament. Keep things in perspective. 

 

 

 



#31 fanta

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 02:52 AM

I wasn't going to respond since what's done is done, but since we're going with "first hand" accounts...

 

This is half true.  The skin had been cultured.  It had come back positive for impetigo.  It had been treated for impetigo.  And it had been treated long enough (5 days).  It was on the proper form with the proper information and done by a board certified dermatologist.  And, it wasn't herpes.

 

Your non-skin doctor (general local guy who has never treated a skin disease) by LOOKS ALONE wanted the dermatologist who treated the infection to GUARANTEE him with 100% certainty that it was not both impetigo and herpes.  And since our dermatologist could not provide a guarantee on her medical license, we spent thousands of dollars to fly to Ohio to have a non-skin guy go on a gut instinct instead of a medical professional in the area of skin's opinion, culture, and treatment.  Good form Ironman.  We did our part to help the doctor make a good decision by letting him speak with the dermatologist, and at the end of the day, the tournament and its staff failed us.

 

Here's the best part.  We came back with herpes from the tournament.  We had the only athlete required to demonstrate with absolutely medical certainty that a skin condition was something other than what it was marked and treated for.  Yet, apparently that standard didn't apply to other wrestlers.

 

As I told all of you at the event -- you've seen us for the last time.  The bad news is, I think some others feel the same way.  When you start feeling you are the show, it's often the same result as when you feel you've become a good enough coach or a good enough wrestler.  The tournament is only as good as those in attendance.

 

Adam T.

 

Sounds good to me. Cultured, proper medical paperwork, followed all protocols.

 

Just tape and seal it with Kinesio Tape or something durable, and let's wrestle.

 

Easy as that!!!



#32 GuillermoBilletas

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:20 AM

If BobP and BillyT were still running the show this wouldn't have happened.  Would've taken the doc out for  steak dinner.  Make the Ironman Great Again.



#33 TobusRex

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 12:47 PM

Is that a fact, Doctor??

 

Per Wikipedia it is. I would hazard a guess Wikipedia is more knowledgeable on the topic than YOU are too...



#34 fanta

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 02:34 PM

Per Wikipedia it is. I would hazard a guess Wikipedia is more knowledgeable on the topic than YOU are too...

 

Pump the brakes.  Your ego will be deflated...not only by what you don't know....but what you're not even capable of understanding.



#35 TobusRex

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 08:18 PM

Pump the brakes.  Your ego will be deflated...not only by what you don't know....but what you're not even capable of understanding.

 

Right.  Where did you get your medical degree? Trump University? Something tells me you need to open a dictionary and find the definitions for "CONTAGIOUS" and the adverb "HIGHLY".


Edited by TobusRex, 19 December 2017 - 08:20 PM.


#36 nom

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 04:31 AM

Given all the back and forth described above, even with the variations, if my son was in this tournament, I would have given the guy who made the tough ‘no’ decision a pat on the back. Must have been a hard call, but a good call, given the need to protect the kids.

#37 nom

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 04:33 AM

Oh, and this idea of the State boycotting over this event is unbelieveably immature and childish. A hard call had to be made and the call was on the side of child safety. You may disagree with the decision but throwing a hissy fit is ridiculous. You have to respect the tilt toward safety.

#38 fanta

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 05:32 AM

Right.  Where did you get your medical degree? Trump University? Something tells me you need to open a dictionary and find the definitions for "CONTAGIOUS" and the adverb "HIGHLY".

 

You sound like one of those "lefty's" who loves government handouts. There's a mismatch of intellects here. I mean you're not going to have much luck making your dog understand Quantum Mechanics.  But if you pet him on the head....aren't you controlling him spiritually?


Edited by fanta, 20 December 2017 - 05:32 AM.


#39 Billyhoyle

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 09:45 AM

I wasn't going to respond since what's done is done, but since we're going with "first hand" accounts...

 

This is half true.  The skin had been cultured.  It had come back positive for impetigo.  It had been treated for impetigo.  And it had been treated long enough (5 days).  It was on the proper form with the proper information and done by a board certified dermatologist.  And, it wasn't herpes.

 

Your non-skin doctor (general local guy who has never treated a skin disease) by LOOKS ALONE wanted the dermatologist who treated the infection to GUARANTEE him with 100% certainty that it was not both impetigo and herpes.  And since our dermatologist could not provide a guarantee on her medical license, we spent thousands of dollars to fly to Ohio to have a non-skin guy go on a gut instinct instead of a medical professional in the area of skin's opinion, culture, and treatment.  Good form Ironman.  We did our part to help the doctor make a good decision by letting him speak with the dermatologist, and at the end of the day, the tournament and its staff failed us.

 

Here's the best part.  We came back with herpes from the tournament.  We had the only athlete required to demonstrate with absolutely medical certainty that a skin condition was something other than what it was marked and treated for.  Yet, apparently that standard didn't apply to other wrestlers.

 

As I told all of you at the event -- you've seen us for the last time.  The bad news is, I think some others feel the same way.  When you start feeling you are the show, it's often the same result as when you feel you've become a good enough coach or a good enough wrestler.  The tournament is only as good as those in attendance.

 

Adam T.

 

Why did you bring the heavyweight when you knew he had an infectious skin condition that had been treated less than a week? It sounds like the sores were still there...If they were gone, wouldn't he have passed the skin check? 

 

Also, sounds like your qualm should be with the dermatologist for refusing to guarantee that it was not Herpes...

 

When it comes to infectious disease, it's always better to be on the side of safety/prevention.


Edited by Billyhoyle, 20 December 2017 - 09:46 AM.


#40 AnklePicker

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 02:07 PM

Looks alone can often tell a large part of the story when it comes to skin infections. The doctor didn't rule him out, he asked the dermatologist. I could see your point had he not contacted the dermatologist.




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