Kyle Dake...

[nom 978]

I’m going I bet that in the very near future Dake will be scouted and wrestlers will no longer go to a quad pod when Dake gets around. They will just belly out and give up the 2. His lower back strength is unreal. I’m sure he freaking screams with joy when the quad pod happens ... near instant 4 point throw for him ..... up, back, and over.

 

Then again, when they give up the two .... must watch for the gut. Dake has a lot of tools. Loving it. Really hope to see more of him internationally.

 

Any word on Yarigan?

Edited December 15, 2017 by nom

[steamboat_charlie 727]

Dake > Cox is a fair claim. Dake beat tsargush in his prime (i don't think cox has any similar wins), and extremely competitive when he was basically up a weight on the senior level. p4p i take dake. 

 

I don't necessarily disagree, but you can't take away an Olympic and World bronze from Cox.  Until Dake puts up some hardware of his own on the biggest stage, I don't think you can rank him ahead of J'den.  

[pamela 1,334]

Green, Stieber, Gwiz, Tervel, Gilman all have more senior level prestige hardware than Kyle Dake. Even Metcalf has some medals from some pretty tough international tournaments. I'm optimistic that KD makes it happen next year, but that's where things are right now.

[wrestlingnerd 2,748]

Hardware counts, but you have to have lived under a pretty big rock to not understand that Dake is a special situation given JB. I’m not saying Dake should be ahead of Cox or not, but just pointing to hardware doesn’t tell the whole story.

[steamboat_charlie 727]

Hardware counts, but you have to have lived under a pretty big rock to not understand that Dake is a special situation given JB. I’m not saying Dake should be ahead of Cox or not, but just pointing to hardware doesn’t tell the whole story.

 

Agreed.  That's why I don't really want to say Cox is "better" than Dake, but the fact remains that Dake has never had the chance to prove it on the World level.  

[hammerlockthree 2,083]

I don't necessarily disagree, but you can't take away an Olympic and World bronze from Cox.  Until Dake puts up some hardware of his own on the biggest stage, I don't think you can rank him ahead of J'den.  

 

Well are we arguing as mathematicians or artists? 

[csw60970 0]

Agreed. That's why I don't really want to say Cox is "better" than Dake, but the fact remains that Dake has never had the chance to prove it on the World level.

He has had the chance, just hasn’t been good enough to get to that stage “to prove himself on that level”

 

 

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[AllISeeIsBronze 64]

Dake has always had freakish explosive power- I remember him lift and pop Tyler Caldwell in a mat return that looked like Dake almost concussed himself. His wide array of takedowns and then the top game itself is just nasty. It is unfortunate that he is currently behind an all-time great. I honestly think he could be world champion as well- JB has had easier matches in world championships finals than compared to his bouts against KD.

[WillieBoy 713]

Dake can't get past Jordan Burroughs. Who had the same type of problem when John Smith was on his tear of 6 straight world titles?

 

No matter who you are if you can't make it to the world tournament it does not matter. Dake is not the only guy who has been in this situation.

[tbert 561]

Hardware counts, but you have to have lived under a pretty big rock to not understand that Dake is a special situation given JB. I’m not saying Dake should be ahead of Cox or not, but just pointing to hardware doesn’t tell the whole story.

I vote we give him an asterisk next to his name *

[cjc007 702]

Well are we arguing as mathematicians or artists?

Accomplishments!

 

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[steamboat_charlie 727]

Well are we arguing as mathematicians or artists? 

Whichever you'd like...  but mathematicians and artists should agree, Dake's general lack of international competition has to count against him, regardless of the circumstances that caused it.  

[nom 978]

I agree. Would like to have seen him at more international events outside of worlds/olympics.

[wrestlingnerd 2,748]

He’s only been injured three times, requiring surgery all three times, in three seasons. It’s not like he could’ve competed but chose not to.

[nom 978]

Fair. But he will have to provide further proof of excellence on the mat. I believe he will.

[wrestlingnerd 2,748]

I agree. I’m just pointing out that he has been on the mat as often as humanly possible and some would argue more than humanly possible. His ability to recover from surgery and come back better than before is unbelievable to me.

 

He does need to gather some hardware. Agreed. But those who say he’s much better than his resume suggests are also probably right.

[mspart 201]

With 10 weights now, he should get his opportunity.

 

mspart

[Peso 331]

I wonder if he has closed the narrow thin gap between him and Jordan?  I mean, he wasn't cutting an ounce, he was recovering still somewhat.  I like 10 weights even better, but he may be hard to get out of a world line-up by anyone if he gets a taste of blood.  I too am of the camp that believes he has that special ingredient we all want, the intangible.  I say this after taking DT virtually every time they wrestled.  He has won me over.  That highlight film is pretty freakin amazing.  His heel pick to the lace is a thing of beauty, and as mentioned, what a gut!  

[pennsyrules 210]

I love Dake and have been watching him since he was a youth but it seems like he's developing a pretty good fantasy game now!  To put him ahead of Cox is certainly a fantasy based on the last 2 years.

[Peso 331]

Man, he looks very good.

[sgallan 592]

I agree. I’m just pointing out that he has been on the mat as often as humanly possible and some would argue more than humanly possible. His ability to recover from surgery and come back better than before is unbelievable to me.

 

He does need to gather some hardware. Agreed. But those who say he’s much better than his resume suggests are also probably right.

 

True but the world is full of people who are better than their resumes in all the strong wrestling countries. Got to find a way. I would suggest (Taylor included) how they lost, and reacted to losses, at this level, there is a bit of a hole in their mental game. Burroughs as a comparison, he utterly tanked at the Olympics after being a golden boy. No excuses. Picked himself up again and regained his status as the champ. Dake (and Taylor) haven't shown anything like that.   

 

[wrestlingnerd 2,748]

I get your point on Taylor, especially after his series with Cox, but are you really going to fault Dake’s MIND for losing a best of 3 against one of the three or four Americans GOATs after wrestling through a mini-tournament?? Ridiculous argument. He had nothing left in the tank by the third match. The mind had very little to nothing to do with it. Not to mention JB is JB, so any loss to him can very easily be explained by, he’s just better.

[sgallan 592]

Whines too much and was mentally beaten by JB to the point match three the result was a forgone conclusion. His mind game versus mere mortals.... off the charts, but he has shown he can get rattled and it costs him in matches. He has shown he can beat JB but if he doesn't win in two it is all but over.

[wrestlingnerd 2,748]

OK. I guess compared to one of the dozen or so best wrestlers the world has ever seen, Dake is a pusillanimous mental midget then. Because he can only win one of three and doesn't like having his face boxed in during a wrestling match.

[Peso 331]

I like his chances in a fair tournament, but our trials format is far from that.  Jordan is unbelievable.  What an American Hero.  Truly inspires me as a human being.  His star will not fade when he quits, but quit he will one day.  As that day gets closer, I think Dake has probably caught him, and has a chance to string together a few championships himself.