nom 978 Report post Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) I’m going I bet that in the very near future Dake will be scouted and wrestlers will no longer go to a quad pod when Dake gets around. They will just belly out and give up the 2. His lower back strength is unreal. I’m sure he freaking screams with joy when the quad pod happens ... near instant 4 point throw for him ..... up, back, and over. Then again, when they give up the two .... must watch for the gut. Dake has a lot of tools. Loving it. Really hope to see more of him internationally. Any word on Yarigan? Edited December 15, 2017 by nom 3 2td3nf, Peso and AllISeeIsBronze reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steamboat_charlie 727 Report post Posted December 15, 2017 Dake > Cox is a fair claim. Dake beat tsargush in his prime (i don't think cox has any similar wins), and extremely competitive when he was basically up a weight on the senior level. p4p i take dake. I don't necessarily disagree, but you can't take away an Olympic and World bronze from Cox. Until Dake puts up some hardware of his own on the biggest stage, I don't think you can rank him ahead of J'den. 3 pamela, AllISeeIsBronze and cjc007 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pamela 1,334 Report post Posted December 15, 2017 Green, Stieber, Gwiz, Tervel, Gilman all have more senior level prestige hardware than Kyle Dake. Even Metcalf has some medals from some pretty tough international tournaments. I'm optimistic that KD makes it happen next year, but that's where things are right now. 1 AllISeeIsBronze reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrestlingnerd 2,748 Report post Posted December 15, 2017 Hardware counts, but you have to have lived under a pretty big rock to not understand that Dake is a special situation given JB. I’m not saying Dake should be ahead of Cox or not, but just pointing to hardware doesn’t tell the whole story. 3 LemonPie, Peso and AllISeeIsBronze reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steamboat_charlie 727 Report post Posted December 15, 2017 Hardware counts, but you have to have lived under a pretty big rock to not understand that Dake is a special situation given JB. I’m not saying Dake should be ahead of Cox or not, but just pointing to hardware doesn’t tell the whole story. Agreed. That's why I don't really want to say Cox is "better" than Dake, but the fact remains that Dake has never had the chance to prove it on the World level. 1 AllISeeIsBronze reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hammerlockthree 2,083 Report post Posted December 16, 2017 I don't necessarily disagree, but you can't take away an Olympic and World bronze from Cox. Until Dake puts up some hardware of his own on the biggest stage, I don't think you can rank him ahead of J'den. Well are we arguing as mathematicians or artists? 1 Peso reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
csw60970 0 Report post Posted December 16, 2017 Agreed. That's why I don't really want to say Cox is "better" than Dake, but the fact remains that Dake has never had the chance to prove it on the World level. He has had the chance, just hasn’t been good enough to get to that stage “to prove himself on that level†Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AllISeeIsBronze 64 Report post Posted December 17, 2017 Dake has always had freakish explosive power- I remember him lift and pop Tyler Caldwell in a mat return that looked like Dake almost concussed himself. His wide array of takedowns and then the top game itself is just nasty. It is unfortunate that he is currently behind an all-time great. I honestly think he could be world champion as well- JB has had easier matches in world championships finals than compared to his bouts against KD. 1 Peso reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillieBoy 713 Report post Posted December 17, 2017 Dake can't get past Jordan Burroughs. Who had the same type of problem when John Smith was on his tear of 6 straight world titles? No matter who you are if you can't make it to the world tournament it does not matter. Dake is not the only guy who has been in this situation. 2 AMastrandrea and Peso reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbert 561 Report post Posted December 17, 2017 Hardware counts, but you have to have lived under a pretty big rock to not understand that Dake is a special situation given JB. I’m not saying Dake should be ahead of Cox or not, but just pointing to hardware doesn’t tell the whole story. I vote we give him an asterisk next to his name * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cjc007 702 Report post Posted December 17, 2017 Well are we arguing as mathematicians or artists?Accomplishments! Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steamboat_charlie 727 Report post Posted December 18, 2017 Well are we arguing as mathematicians or artists? Whichever you'd like... but mathematicians and artists should agree, Dake's general lack of international competition has to count against him, regardless of the circumstances that caused it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nom 978 Report post Posted December 18, 2017 I agree. Would like to have seen him at more international events outside of worlds/olympics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrestlingnerd 2,748 Report post Posted December 18, 2017 He’s only been injured three times, requiring surgery all three times, in three seasons. It’s not like he could’ve competed but chose not to. 1 AllISeeIsBronze reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nom 978 Report post Posted December 18, 2017 Fair. But he will have to provide further proof of excellence on the mat. I believe he will. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrestlingnerd 2,748 Report post Posted December 18, 2017 I agree. I’m just pointing out that he has been on the mat as often as humanly possible and some would argue more than humanly possible. His ability to recover from surgery and come back better than before is unbelievable to me. He does need to gather some hardware. Agreed. But those who say he’s much better than his resume suggests are also probably right. 2 AllISeeIsBronze and nom reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mspart 201 Report post Posted December 18, 2017 With 10 weights now, he should get his opportunity. mspart 1 2td3nf reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peso 331 Report post Posted December 26, 2017 I wonder if he has closed the narrow thin gap between him and Jordan? I mean, he wasn't cutting an ounce, he was recovering still somewhat. I like 10 weights even better, but he may be hard to get out of a world line-up by anyone if he gets a taste of blood. I too am of the camp that believes he has that special ingredient we all want, the intangible. I say this after taking DT virtually every time they wrestled. He has won me over. That highlight film is pretty freakin amazing. His heel pick to the lace is a thing of beauty, and as mentioned, what a gut! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pennsyrules 210 Report post Posted December 26, 2017 I love Dake and have been watching him since he was a youth but it seems like he's developing a pretty good fantasy game now! To put him ahead of Cox is certainly a fantasy based on the last 2 years. 1 sgallan reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peso 331 Report post Posted December 27, 2017 Man, he looks very good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sgallan 592 Report post Posted December 27, 2017 I agree. I’m just pointing out that he has been on the mat as often as humanly possible and some would argue more than humanly possible. His ability to recover from surgery and come back better than before is unbelievable to me. He does need to gather some hardware. Agreed. But those who say he’s much better than his resume suggests are also probably right. True but the world is full of people who are better than their resumes in all the strong wrestling countries. Got to find a way. I would suggest (Taylor included) how they lost, and reacted to losses, at this level, there is a bit of a hole in their mental game. Burroughs as a comparison, he utterly tanked at the Olympics after being a golden boy. No excuses. Picked himself up again and regained his status as the champ. Dake (and Taylor) haven't shown anything like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrestlingnerd 2,748 Report post Posted December 27, 2017 I get your point on Taylor, especially after his series with Cox, but are you really going to fault Dake’s MIND for losing a best of 3 against one of the three or four Americans GOATs after wrestling through a mini-tournament?? Ridiculous argument. He had nothing left in the tank by the third match. The mind had very little to nothing to do with it. Not to mention JB is JB, so any loss to him can very easily be explained by, he’s just better. 1 TheRealOne9050 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sgallan 592 Report post Posted December 28, 2017 Whines too much and was mentally beaten by JB to the point match three the result was a forgone conclusion. His mind game versus mere mortals.... off the charts, but he has shown he can get rattled and it costs him in matches. He has shown he can beat JB but if he doesn't win in two it is all but over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrestlingnerd 2,748 Report post Posted December 28, 2017 OK. I guess compared to one of the dozen or so best wrestlers the world has ever seen, Dake is a pusillanimous mental midget then. Because he can only win one of three and doesn't like having his face boxed in during a wrestling match. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peso 331 Report post Posted December 29, 2017 I like his chances in a fair tournament, but our trials format is far from that. Jordan is unbelievable. What an American Hero. Truly inspires me as a human being. His star will not fade when he quits, but quit he will one day. As that day gets closer, I think Dake has probably caught him, and has a chance to string together a few championships himself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites