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Georgia - Alabama

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Two of the issues I remember coming up with them-

 

1. Travel. Too few opponents within a reasonable distance. I realize the PAC-10 is worse but that's what I heard.

 

2. Recruiting. The fact that they could only be successful by recruiting out of state (and generally far out of state). I don't know what the relevant stats are for football/bball to note possible hypocrisy but again these were points discussed way back when.

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I think the benefits of SEC money to wrestling would be marginal at best, anyway. SEC men's basketball for example has hardly separated itself from the other power conferences despite facilities, private planes for recruiting, promotion dollars, etc. And the Mizzou Athletics Department already gets SEC media money but I don't know if the wrestling program is a significant benefactor of those inflows of cash. Football money mostly stays in football.

The school facilities for all sports improve because of the football money.

 

UGA has brand new soccer, track and softball facilities. They pay for these facilities with money from football ticket sales and SEC / NCAA TV contracts.

 

For basketball, Kentucky is a national contender every year. Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina, Texas A&M, and even Auburn have been making some noise recently.

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 UGA just played Alabama for the NCAA D1 Football title. That's what Housebuye is humble bragging about.

 

Nope, they did not play for an NCAA title. The top division of College football has never had an NCAA champion, just one picked by the polls. Every other division has a playoff for a real Champion. Every High School football program has a playoff for a real Champion. The NFL has a playoff for a real Champion.

 

Alabama won a game and is the FCS champion - NOT the NCAA Champion because there is no such thing as the NCAA Champion at their level.

 

It is not as if they are North Dakota State University who just won their 7the NCAA title in Football.

 

Get real and get a real NCAA playoff like NDSU/Sam Houston State played and then you will have an honest NCAA Champion instead of a poll winner.

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Two of the issues I remember coming up with them-

 

1. Travel. Too few opponents within a reasonable distance. I realize the PAC-10 is worse but that's what I heard.

 

2. Recruiting. The fact that they could only be successful by recruiting out of state (and generally far out of state). I don't know what the relevant stats are for football/bball to note possible hypocrisy but again these were points discussed way back when.

2 was a problem then. It is NOT a problem today. 

 

The SEC sponsored wrestling for 12 seasons  1969-1970 through 1980-1981.  

 

There was never more than 7 teams that had wrestling. 

 

Louisiana State, Auburn, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee and Florida with Kentucky adding wrestling in the 1974-1975 season. 

 

1974-1975 through 1979-1980 the SEC had all seven teams. It wasn't until the SEC's final season, 1980-1981 that Florida and Alabama dropped, thus making SEC only 5 teams.  When Auburn announced that they would be dropping wrestling after winning the 1981 SEC tournament, that was the end of SEC wrestling. 

 

So let's look at it from a logical standpoint. 

 

I already pointed out about Georgia.  There's absolutely no reason why Georgia couldn't form a decent wrestling team with mainly wrestlers from Georgia on that team.  

 

Florida is no different.  There are currently 40 Division I wrestlers among 28 teams in Division I wrestling, competing today.  

 

As of Intermatwrestle's November rankings two of them were ranked 

FLORIDA

#9 Jared Prince Navy 141 lbs 

#13 Yoanse Meijas 174 lbs 

So, statistically there are two teams in the SEC, Florida and Georgia, that could field teams with local talent without much problem. 

 

I'll add a third in Tennessee.  

 

​Chattanooga has fielded a decent team, one that competes strong (often wins) the Southern Conference tournament year in and year out.  These teams are often made up with local Tennessee talent, and often have kids from the surrounding Southern States as well.  22 members of the current Moc team are from the south with 10 from Georgia, 7 from Tennessee, 2 from  Kentucky, and 1 from Alabama and Louisiana. 

 

Georgia, Florida, Tennessee  -  Three SEC teams that could sponsor wrestling and easily field teams with local talent. 

 

Now lets look at the other teams in the SEC

Alabama 

Louisiana State 

Auburn 

Ole Miss 

South Carolina 

Arkansas 

Mississippi State 

Texas A&M 

Kentucky 

Missouri 

 

Missouri is already a shoe-in. So we're done discussing them. 

 

I'll eliminate Mississippi and Mississippi State.  We've yet to get wrestling sanctioned in their high schools.  No use of even remotely dreaming about collegiate wrestling in Mississippi until we can get it their at the youth, junior high and high school level.  

 

Texas A&M I might as well add as a fourth team that could field their team with local talent.  35 current Division I wrestlers among 24 teams in the 2017-2018 season. No reason the school couldn't field a team full of kids who graduated high school in the lone star state.  Also have nearby Oklahoma to recruit from as well.  Not everyone can be an OSU Cowboy or Oklahoma Sooner.  

 

South Carolina, I'll have to have someone else make an analysis here. I don't know much about South Carolina, but obviously Presbyterian College must feel confident enough in the high school wrestling that the state produces to field a wrestling program next season. 

 

Arkansas is a funny one to think about it.  Wrestling in the state at the high school level is less than 10 years old.  Yet, today there are 3 wrestlers in Division I that graduated from an Arkansas high school and their have been wrestlers in the past as well.  Forming a team with strictly kids from Arkansas would be a challenge. I'll admit. 

 

Louisiana State is pretty much a lot like Arkansas. Although high school wrestling has been in the state much longer, results are about the same.  State has produced some outstanding talent.  Daniel Cormier and David Bonin being among two of them. However, it isn't consistent.  Only 4 wrestlers at the Division I level this season graduated from a Louisiana high school. 

 

Kentucky has 7 wrestlers currently wrestling Division I in the 2017-2018 season.  Not as good as Florida, Georgia, Tennessee or Texas, but better than Louisiana and Arkansas. 

 

That leaves Alabama and Auburn.  9 wrestlers in Division I right now are from Alabama.   While not near as strong as Georgia, Florida, and Texas,  what Alabama has going for it is that Georgia and Florida both produce a ton of talent.  Nearby state recruiting for the gaps that in state talent might leave. 

 

So let's take what we have

 

Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Texas A&M, South Carolina, Missouri - Logically, statistically, realistically could produce competitive wrestling teams with talent from their own states or nearby states.  I'd say 75% or higher of rosters could be local talent. 100% in Georgia and Florida.  Kids who graduated from the same state. 

 

Alabama, Auburn - Would have to recruit heavier from nearby states, but could still field decent wrestling teams with nearby talent.  

 

Louisiana State, Arkansas and Kentucky - More challenging. Making up teams full of kids from in state here would be more difficult. Here is where out of state recruiting would come more into play. 

 

Ole Miss and Mississippi State - Forget about it. 

 

I feel very confident in a 6 out of 13 teams have wrestling SEC conference.  With Missouri leading the way at first, it'd only be a matter of time before Georgia and Florida, with their own local talent were both consistently top 20 teams year in and year out if not better.  Talking multiple NCAA qualifiers with each team producing 1-3 All Americans per year. 

 

An 8 out of 13 teams have SEC conference I feel is also realistic, adding in Alabama and Auburn. 

 

11 out of 13 is realistically the best I think we could hope for.  6 out of 13 the most realistic, 8 out of 13 doable. 

 

13/13 not happening anytime soon.  The state of Mississippi has been anti-wrestling for a very long time.  When the SEC decided to do wrestling back in the 1969-1970 season, the athletic directors at both schools responded, "No, never."  Looks like they meant it. 

 

But yeah, I'll say it one more time.  No reason why for the talent that Georgia and Florida produces at the high school level that the state can't provide at least one Division I opportunity for its athletes.  Starting with the Bulldogs and the Gators would be a fantastic idea. 

 

My two cents, for what they're apparently not worth. 

 

 

Edited by JohnnyThompsonnum1

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The school facilities for all sports improve because of the football money.

 

UGA has brand new soccer, track and softball facilities. They pay for these facilities with money from football ticket sales and SEC / NCAA TV contracts.

 

For basketball, Kentucky is a national contender every year. Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina, Texas A&M, and even Auburn have been making some noise recently.

Kentucky has always been a powerhouse basketball program, and Florida was locking in Final Fours and national titles before SEC media money came rolling in (until Billy Donovan left). The rest of the SEC still don't hold a candle to the blue blood programs. UK, Tennessee and Auburn are out of the AP Top 20 and A&M fell out of the polls - although I will concede that this season is pretty weird, haha. South Carolina had a nice tournament run last year, but they were more Cinderella than a team that anyone expected to finish strong.

Edited by pamela

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2 was a problem then. It is NOT a problem today.

 

The SEC sponsored wrestling for 12 seasons 1969-1970 through 1980-1981.

 

There was never more than 7 teams that had wrestling.

 

Louisiana State, Auburn, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee and Florida with Kentucky adding wrestling in the 1974-1975 season.

 

1974-1975 through 1979-1980 the SEC had all seven teams. It wasn't until the SEC's final season, 1980-1981 that Florida and Alabama dropped, thus making SEC only 5 teams. When Auburn announced that they would be dropping wrestling after winning the 1981 SEC tournament, that was the end of SEC wrestling.

 

So let's look at it from a logical standpoint.

 

I already pointed out about Georgia. There's absolutely no reason why Georgia couldn't form a decent wrestling team with mainly wrestlers from Georgia on that team.

 

Florida is no different. There are currently 40 Division I wrestlers among 28 teams in Division I wrestling, competing today.

 

As of Intermatwrestle's November rankings two of them were ranked

FLORIDA

#9 Jared Prince Navy 141 lbs

#13 Yoanse Meijas 174 lbs

So, statistically there are two teams in the SEC, Florida and Georgia, that could field teams with local talent without much problem.

 

I'll add a third in Tennessee.

 

​Chattanooga has fielded a decent team, one that competes strong (often wins) the Southern Conference tournament year in and year out. These teams are often made up with local Tennessee talent, and often have kids from the surrounding Southern States as well. 22 members of the current Moc team are from the south with 10 from Georgia, 7 from Tennessee, 2 from Kentucky, and 1 from Alabama and Louisiana.

 

Georgia, Florida, Tennessee - Three SEC teams that could sponsor wrestling and easily field teams with local talent.

 

Now lets look at the other teams in the SEC

Alabama

Louisiana State

Auburn

Ole Miss

South Carolina

Arkansas

Mississippi State

Texas A&M

Kentucky

Missouri

 

Missouri is already a shoe-in. So we're done discussing them.

 

I'll eliminate Mississippi and Mississippi State. We've yet to get wrestling sanctioned in their high schools. No use of even remotely dreaming about collegiate wrestling in Mississippi until we can get it their at the youth, junior high and high school level.

 

Texas A&M I might as well add as a fourth team that could field their team with local talent. 35 current Division I wrestlers among 24 teams in the 2017-2018 season. No reason the school couldn't field a team full of kids who graduated high school in the lone star state. Also have nearby Oklahoma to recruit from as well. Not everyone can be an OSU Cowboy or Oklahoma Sooner.

 

South Carolina, I'll have to have someone else make an analysis here. I don't know much about South Carolina, but obviously Presbyterian College must feel confident enough in the high school wrestling that the state produces to field a wrestling program next season.

 

Arkansas is a funny one to think about it. Wrestling in the state at the high school level is less than 10 years old. Yet, today there are 3 wrestlers in Division I that graduated from an Arkansas high school and their have been wrestlers in the past as well. Forming a team with strictly kids from Arkansas would be a challenge. I'll admit.

 

Louisiana State is pretty much a lot like Arkansas. Although high school wrestling has been in the state much longer, results are about the same. State has produced some outstanding talent. Daniel Cormier and David Bonin being among two of them. However, it isn't consistent. Only 4 wrestlers at the Division I level this season graduated from a Louisiana high school.

 

Kentucky has 7 wrestlers currently wrestling Division I in the 2017-2018 season. Not as good as Florida, Georgia, Tennessee or Texas, but better than Louisiana and Arkansas.

 

That leaves Alabama and Auburn. 9 wrestlers in Division I right now are from Alabama. While not near as strong as Georgia, Florida, and Texas, what Alabama has going for it is that Georgia and Florida both produce a ton of talent. Nearby state recruiting for the gaps that in state talent might leave.

 

So let's take what we have

 

Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Texas A&M, South Carolina, Missouri - Logically, statistically, realistically could produce competitive wrestling teams with talent from their own states or nearby states. I'd say 75% or higher of rosters could be local talent. 100% in Georgia and Florida. Kids who graduated from the same state.

 

Alabama, Auburn - Would have to recruit heavier from nearby states, but could still field decent wrestling teams with nearby talent.

 

Louisiana State, Arkansas and Kentucky - More challenging. Making up teams full of kids from in state here would be more difficult. Here is where out of state recruiting would come more into play.

 

Ole Miss and Mississippi State - Forget about it.

 

I feel very confident in a 6 out of 13 teams have wrestling SEC conference. With Missouri leading the way at first, it'd only be a matter of time before Georgia and Florida, with their own local talent were both consistently top 20 teams year in and year out if not better. Talking multiple NCAA qualifiers with each team producing 1-3 All Americans per year.

 

An 8 out of 13 teams have SEC conference I feel is also realistic, adding in Alabama and Auburn.

 

11 out of 13 is realistically the best I think we could hope for. 6 out of 13 the most realistic, 8 out of 13 doable.

 

13/13 not happening anytime soon. The state of Mississippi has been anti-wrestling for a very long time. When the SEC decided to do wrestling back in the 1969-1970 season, the athletic directors at both schools responded, "No, never." Looks like they meant it.

 

But yeah, I'll say it one more time. No reason why for the talent that Georgia and Florida produces at the high school level that the state can't provide at least one Division I opportunity for its athletes. Starting with the Bulldogs and the Gators would be a fantastic idea.

 

My two cents, for what they're apparently not worth.

 

 

There is a higher likelihood that wrestling ends up like gymnastics ( 20-25 teams) than the SEC deciding to add wrestling. It will never happen

 

 

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Isn't Vanderbilt also in the SEC. Private school, in Kentucky, lots of endowment, good academics. But they have never had a team. 

 

Georgia Tech, yeah I know tey are ACC. But they lack wrestling (and M+W Soccer and W Golf)

 

Are you (JT) sure about when Auburn dropped? The way I remember it. Alabama 1st, of course. Then Fl was awarded the NCAA Tourney, won the LHU Mat-town, and returned home to find the team canceled.

 

A year or two later Georgia won MatTown, returned home had program dropped.

 

Dec 1984 Tennessee won MatTown, returned home, program dropped.

 

Kentucky dropped the program somewhere in Fl-Ga-Tenn timeframe.

 

I thought Then LSU dropped, and Auburn a year later, but maybe that order was reversed. 

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Isn't Vanderbilt also in the SEC. Private school, in Kentucky, lots of endowment, good academics. But they have never had a team. 

 

Georgia Tech, yeah I know tey are ACC. But they lack wrestling (and M+W Soccer and W Golf)

 

Are you (JT) sure about when Auburn dropped? The way I remember it. Alabama 1st, of course. Then Fl was awarded the NCAA Tourney, won the LHU Mat-town, and returned home to find the team canceled.

 

A year or two later Georgia won MatTown, returned home had program dropped.

 

Dec 1984 Tennessee won MatTown, returned home, program dropped.

 

Kentucky dropped the program somewhere in Fl-Ga-Tenn timeframe.

 

I thought Then LSU dropped, and Auburn a year later, but maybe that order was reversed. 

Vanderbilt had a wrestling program that was dropped sometime in the 1950's. 

 

Georgia Tech had a varsity wrestling program from 1949-1989. The Yellow Jackets produced 10 wrestlers that qualified for the NCAA tournament a total of 14 times, with 1 All American. 

 

Auburn dropped in 1981.  That year alone, they won the SEC conference championship, produced 5 NCAA qualifiers, 2 of which were All Americans.  Altogether the Tigers had 38 wrestlers that qualified a total of 57 times to the NCAA tournament. 8 All Americans, one of which was an NCAA champion. 

 

Tennessee ran from 1940-1986. In 1986 they had four NCAA qualifiers, one of which was an All American.  Altogether 24 wrestlers and 44 NCAA qualifications. 11 All Americans, 1 NCAA champion. 

 

Florida specifically got wrestling to be a part of the SEC conference and ran from 1969-1970 season until the program was dropped in after the 1979-1980 season.  During their 10 year existence, they finished with one SEC conference team title and four runner-up finishes.  12 wrestlers qualified a total of 22 times, with 1 All American. 

 

Kentucky wrestling existed at one time prior to their run in the SEC. I'm not sure of the start or end date on that.  For their SEC run, they started wrestling again in 1975, and this was primarily because of Fletcher Carr. Kentucky wanted him as a football coach and his deal was if and only if the school would agree to field a wrestling team and he would be allowed to coach it.  The team ran from 1974-1975 through 1983.  During this short period of time, 16 wrestlers qualified for the NCAA tournament 30 times.  Wildcats produced 11 All Americans. 

 

Louisiana State held on the longest.  The tigers first started their varsity wrestling program in the 1969-1970 season when the SEC decided they wanted to do wrestling.  41 wrestlers qualified a total of 65 times to the NCAA tournament. 13 All Americans.  They dropped in 1986. 

 

 

And that's the information I have to provide, for what it's apparently not worth. 

 

 

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There is a higher likelihood that wrestling ends up like gymnastics ( 20-25 teams) than the SEC deciding to add wrestling. It will never happen

 

 

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I was 15 years old when I first joined themat.com   

 

A 15 year old freshman in high school.  

 

We talked back then about the likelyhood of Arkansas ever having collegiate wrestling of any kind. 

 

Answers varied from "absolutely not", "Never", "No" to the most positive of them all, "Maybe the state might one day get high school wrestling sanctioned, and if that happens maybe, just maybe, a college program will pop up but I doubt it."

 

2008-2009 saw the first year of sanctioned high school wrestling in Arkansas.  

 

Today the state of Arkansas has 6 varsity wrestling programs at the collegiate level.  1 NJCAA, 3 NAIA, 1 DIII, and 1 DII.

 

The wrestling bunch has never been accused of being the optimistic type.  And with all of the negative that has happened to our sport throughout the years, hard to blame them. 

 

My opinion, for what it's apparently not worth. 

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Isn't Vanderbilt also in the SEC. Private school, in Kentucky, lots of endowment, good academics. But they have never had a team. 

 

 

Yes, Vandy was one of the founding members of the SEC.  Its located in Tennessee (Nashville) though - not Kentucky.

 

BTW, Tennessee finished 8th at NCAA's in their final season, with 3 AA's, including national champ Chris Edmond.

Edited by HurricaneWrestling

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Vanderbilt had a wrestling program that was dropped sometime in the 1950's.

 

Georgia Tech had a varsity wrestling program from 1949-1989. The Yellow Jackets produced 10 wrestlers that qualified for the NCAA tournament a total of 14 times, with 1 All American.

 

Auburn dropped in 1981. That year alone, they won the SEC conference championship, produced 5 NCAA qualifiers, 2 of which were All Americans. Altogether the Tigers had 38 wrestlers that qualified a total of 57 times to the NCAA tournament. 8 All Americans, one of which was an NCAA champion.

 

Tennessee ran from 1940-1986. In 1986 they had four NCAA qualifiers, one of which was an All American. Altogether 24 wrestlers and 44 NCAA qualifications. 11 All Americans, 1 NCAA champion.

 

Florida specifically got wrestling to be a part of the SEC conference and ran from 1969-1970 season until the program was dropped in after the 1979-1980 season. During their 10 year existence, they finished with one SEC conference team title and four runner-up finishes. 12 wrestlers qualified a total of 22 times, with 1 All American.

 

Kentucky wrestling existed at one time prior to their run in the SEC. I'm not sure of the start or end date on that. For their SEC run, they started wrestling again in 1975, and this was primarily because of Fletcher Carr. Kentucky wanted him as a football coach and his deal was if and only if the school would agree to field a wrestling team and he would be allowed to coach it. The team ran from 1974-1975 through 1983. During this short period of time, 16 wrestlers qualified for the NCAA tournament 30 times. Wildcats produced 11 All Americans.

 

Louisiana State held on the longest. The tigers first started their varsity wrestling program in the 1969-1970 season when the SEC decided they wanted to do wrestling. 41 wrestlers qualified a total of 65 times to the NCAA tournament. 13 All Americans. They dropped in 1986.

 

 

And that's the information I have to provide, for what it's apparently not worth.

 

 

How did you find info out about Georgia Tech. I have a family member that was trying to find more out about the history of the GT program

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Bama is freaking amazing.  5 National titles in 9 years.  Other than them the SEC is not so much though.  Who else has done anything.  The Big 12 teams that went there are the same mid level programs that they were here in the Big 12.  

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Bama is freaking amazing. 5 National titles in 9 years. Other than them the SEC is not so much though. Who else has done anything. The Big 12 teams that went there are the same mid level programs that they were here in the Big 12.

Florida, LSU and Auburn have all won the national championship in the last 10 years. I think an SEC team has won the national championship 9 out of the last 12 years. I don’t think another conference even comes close to that.

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I was 15 years old when I first joined themat.com

 

A 15 year old freshman in high school.

 

We talked back then about the likelyhood of Arkansas ever having collegiate wrestling of any kind.

 

Answers varied from "absolutely not", "Never", "No" to the most positive of them all, "Maybe the state might one day get high school wrestling sanctioned, and if that happens maybe, just maybe, a college program will pop up but I doubt it."

 

2008-2009 saw the first year of sanctioned high school wrestling in Arkansas.

 

Today the state of Arkansas has 6 varsity wrestling programs at the collegiate level. 1 NJCAA, 3 NAIA, 1 DIII, and 1 DII.

 

The wrestling bunch has never been accused of being the optimistic type. And with all of the negative that has happened to our sport throughout the years, hard to blame them.

 

My opinion, for what it's apparently not worth.

I appreciate the passion, and your research. The challenges to SEC wrestling are many. Smaller divisions or NAIA can add the sport because it helps bring in more potential students who will pay 12-15K year for tuition.

 

The biggest issues for the SEC are related to travel and a lack of built in wrestling culture in most of those states. I highly doubt they would add a sport where only 4 or 5 teams field teams, so it is probably an all or nothing proposition.

 

In the Mid-Atlantic, East and most of the Midwest, teams can hop on a bus and drive to any number of other D1 programs within a few hours. That would not be the case for any of those states.

 

Our biggest push should be to increase more opportunities in the west, where we already have some programs.

 

 

 

 

 

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I appreciate the passion, and your research. The challenges to SEC wrestling are many. Smaller divisions or NAIA can add the sport because it helps bring in more potential students who will pay 12-15K year for tuition.

 

The biggest issues for the SEC are related to travel and a lack of built in wrestling culture in most of those states. I highly doubt they would add a sport where only 4 or 5 teams field teams, so it is probably an all or nothing proposition.

 

In the Mid-Atlantic, East and most of the Midwest, teams can hop on a bus and drive to any number of other D1 programs within a few hours. That would not be the case for any of those states.

 

Our biggest push should be to increase more opportunities in the west, where we already have some programs.

 

 

 

 

 

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I'd be all for that.  

 

UCLA, Arizona, Oregon, Washington, California, Washington State, Utah, Colorado, Cal State Fullerton, UC Davis, San Diego State and Boise State all reinstating their wrestling programs. USC having for the first time in its history a varsity wrestling program.  Can you imagine that?  The PAC-12 along with Stanford, Arizona State, Cal Poly, Bakersfield and Oregon State, being 18 teams.  That'd be awesome.  Many of these schools have programs in the NCWA and Fresno State is showing the need both from a participation and fan perspective for wrestling in California. 

 

UNLV recently developed a NCWA team themselves. Love to see wrestling back at UNLV. 

 

It'd be nice for Utah Valley to have some in state competition with not only the reinstatement of Utah, but also Utah State, Brigham Young, and Weber State.  If the state is producing wrestlers like Cael Sanderson and Ryan Lewis, it'd be nice if they had more opportunities to wrestle at home. 

 

Wrestling in the west coast? I'm all for it. 

 

That's my opinion, for what it's apparently not worth. 

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I forgot to mention the main point about Georgia Tech, that it is 73% male undergrad. possibly the highest percentage in D1 except the Service and Military Schools.

 

Clemson is always talked about as on the verge of bringing back wrestling. If those 2 Schools reinstated it would give a nearby competitor. Plus Citadel and Gardner-Webb are also nearby in South Carolina..U of Tennessee is in Knoxville  Far East part of State, within a bus ride of most of the NC schools, Va Tech, and of course UTC. If somehow we were able to establish an Expansion program into the South, I think those five schools, (Ga, GaTech, SC, Clemson, Tenn) they would be the logical targets.

 

After many years of financial mismanagement in California, the state has been in the Black the last few years. I suppose  a lot would depend on the new governor.

 

It looks like when Cal Baptist reaches D1, their will be 15 public Universities, and 9 private.

 

-----------------------------

 

To me, and I think to any logical person, any state's flagship Public University, should sponsor, as a minimum, every sport totally sported by that state's HS athletic. I don't know who does that. OhSU might. PennState has all the fully sponsored sports except Competitive Cheer     

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I have said it once and I will say it again, the rest of the nation had best be happy that the Southeastern Conference does not have wrestling.

1.  They make more money each year than all the other conferences and have the very best facilities.

2.  If they ever decide to get back into NCAA D1 Wrestling they will hire the best coaches (they have more money) and be able to recruit the best athletes.

3.  Never forget that those big 6'5" and 325lb lineman that are great athletes and can run have younger brother and cousins that are just as athletic if not more so but are just to small for big time football.  Those same brothers and cousins would make amazing wrestlers.

 

No way. The SEC already had wrestling and they were pretty rotten at it. That's one of the reasons they all threw in the towel on wrestling. Occasionally you'd see an SEC team finish top 10 at NCAAs back in the day, but those southern boys are soft and it shows on the mat.

 

The "deep south" produces a negligible amount of talent, too. Who was the last wrestler who went to HS in Alabama that won an NCAA title? Georgia? Mississippi? Louisiana? Kentucky? Arkansas? South Carolina? Tennessee? Through sheer numbers Texas/Florida have produced some talent, though, but very anemic in terms of how many participants they have.

Point on hiring great coach with big bucks, but the south produces almost no wrestling talent. Even Cael gravitated to Pennsylvania because he needed the talent to make his dynasty. I can't see anybody doing that in Tuscaloosa, Athens, or Little Rock.

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No way. The SEC already had wrestling and they were pretty rotten at it. That's one of the reasons they all threw in the towel on wrestling. Occasionally you'd see an SEC team finish top 10 at NCAAs back in the day, but those southern boys are soft and it shows on the mat.

 

The "deep south" produces a negligible amount of talent, too. Who was the last wrestler who went to HS in Alabama that won an NCAA title? Georgia? Mississippi? Louisiana? Kentucky? Arkansas? South Carolina? Tennessee? Through sheer numbers Texas/Florida have produced some talent, though, but very anemic in terms of how many participants they have.

Point on hiring great coach with big bucks, but the south produces almost no wrestling talent. Even Cael gravitated to Pennsylvania because he needed the talent to make his dynasty. I can't see anybody doing that in Tuscaloosa, Athens, or Little Rock.

1969-1970 through 1980-1981, the 12 years the SEC had wrestling, most of the wrestlers on the  7 teams total that were in the SEC were made up of wrestlers from other states.  States as in Iowa, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania. Wrestling at the high school level wasn't much in Alabama or Louisiana, so the teams weren't made up of kids from Alabama or Louisiana when we talk about Alabama, Auburn or Louisiana State wrestling. 

 

That's the point I was making earlier. Today with the massive growth of wrestling, and the type of talent that Georgia, Tennessee, Florida and Texas produce, you COULD produce talented teams with kids from the home state. Especially Georgia and Florida. 

 

Why are you even mentioning Mississippi in your question? You already know the answer to that question.  You can't produce what you don't have.  There is no high school wrestling in Mississippi, so of course they won't be producing NCAA champions. 

 

SEC wrestling only lasted 12 seasons and in those 12 seasons, teams placed in the top 10 on 3 occasions.  I don't think 3/12 in relative terms is that bad. 

 

1977 Kentucky 10th 

1980 Kentucky 10th 

1981 Auburn 9th 

 

If you're wanting a team to compete with Penn State and Ohio State, then yeah, you're probably not going to get that with a Florida Gator or Georgia Bulldog or Tennessee Volunteer team made up of kids from Florida, Georgia, Texas and Alabama competing with a Penn State team made up of kids from Pennsylvania, Ohio, New Jersey and New York.  

 

But if you're talking about a competitive team, as in a team that can produce All Americans and compete for a spot in the top 15. Yeah, a college team in Florida, made up of kids from Florida and the surrounding nearby southern states of Georgia, Alabama, ect. Most certainly they could.  I have no doubt. 

 

I mean let's just be hypothetical here for a second. I'll throw out a year for the Hell of it.  

 

2002

 

Let's say 2002 NCAA tournament I have to use wrestlers that were wrestling during that time, based on their NCAA finish of that year.  Let's pretend that instead of wrestling for who they did wrestle for they would have had the opportunity to wrestle for the Florida Gators. 

 

125 - Chris Rodrigues (From Georgia) 8th 

133 - Witt Durden (From Georgia) 3rd

149 - Jared Frayer (From Florida) 2nd

165 - Mark Fee (From Florida) 5th 

174 - Ralph Everett (From Florida) 0-2

184 - Josh Lambrecht (From Florida) 2nd

197- Tom Grossman (From Texas) 1-2 

HWT - Adrian Thompson (From Florida) 1-2 

 

So here I give you an example of what could have been a team made entirely of southern boys.  8 NCAA qualifiers, 4 of which were All Americans, including two finalist. I would think this for sure would be a top 15 if not a top 10 finish.  

 

So let's say that instead of wrestling for the various schools that these wrestlers did end up wrestling for, they would have HAD the opportunity to wrestle in the south.  Florida Gators, Georgia Bulldogs, Texas A&M Aggies. 

 

Yes, the south produces some great talent and yes, good enough talent to be top 15, maybe even top 10 NCAA DI. 

 

My opinion, for what it's apparently not worth. 

 

 

Edited by JohnnyThompsonnum1

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No way. The SEC already had wrestling and they were pretty rotten at it. That's one of the reasons they all threw in the towel on wrestling. 

Actually, there were two main reasons the SEC wrestling was scrapped.  

 

#1 was because of low attendance. SEC dual meets drew practically nothing. Chattanooga would wrestle Tennessee at Knoxville and their would be 125 people in the crowd.  115 of them having made the hour and half drive from Chattanooga. Even the conference championships themselves were poorly attended.  A lack of keesters in the seats per SEC duals and tournaments had a lot more to do with wrestling being scrapped, than did simply "not being good at it."

 

I mean you're not wrong.  Wrestling doesn't really have what I like to call "Chicago Cubs" fans.  If you want people to show up and watch, you better not only be good, you better be the best or at least in contention to be the best.  If Ohio State and Penn State dual meet attendance comparing today to yesteryear doesn't prove that, I don't know what does. 

 

Yet, had people showed up to dual meets in Knoxville or Gainesville or Atlanta or Baton Rouge like they did/do in Chattanooga,  the chances of SEC wrestling sticking around, would have been much greater. 

 

When Bear Bryant came in and dropped Alabama wrestling in 1979, the writing was on the wall. That was the beginning of the end.   Florida following in suit shortly after made little to no sense.  In both 1977 and 1978 they had 6 NCAA qualifiers, winning the SEC in 1977 and producing their one and only All American in 1978.  In other words, the philosophy seemed to be at Florida, "Hey, we're starting to get good and competitive now...better drop the team."  It made absolutely no sense. 

 

Pat Dye axing the program at Auburn is essentially in a nutshell what killed SEC wrestling for good. When the champs from the 1981 tournament were told, "no more" that was it for everyone else too. 

 

 

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No way. The SEC already had wrestling and they were pretty rotten at it. That's one of the reasons they all threw in the towel on wrestling. Occasionally you'd see an SEC team finish top 10 at NCAAs back in the day, but those southern boys are soft and it shows on the mat.

 

The "deep south" produces a negligible amount of talent, too. Who was the last wrestler who went to HS in Alabama that won an NCAA title? Georgia? Mississippi? Louisiana? Kentucky? Arkansas? South Carolina? Tennessee? Through sheer numbers Texas/Florida have produced some talent, though, but very anemic in terms of how many participants they have.

Point on hiring great coach with big bucks, but the south produces almost no wrestling talent. Even Cael gravitated to Pennsylvania because he needed the talent to make his dynasty. I can't see anybody doing that in Tuscaloosa, Athens, or Little Rock.

 

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The question I have is simply this.  Even if wrestling were as popular in Florida or Georgia or Texas or Alabama, would that be good enough for an athletic director?  An administration?  An argument against adding wrestling is that it doesn't draw.  Yet what are we comparing it too?  The University of Iowa holds the largest attended amateur wrestling event ever, 42,287 spectators.  Even that compared to Iowa playing Louisiana-Monroe in Football paled in comparison at 70,585 fans.  

Iowa wrestling, the best for attendance in the country still only generates about 5,500 to 15,000.   

Would that do anything for an A.D. at Florida or Georgia or Georgia Tech or wherever?  

I mean even if we could guarantee 15,000 fans per dual, would that mean anything to anyone?  

Curious about that.  

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I think it ultimately comes down to $ and Title 9. There's more bucks in nearly any male sport than wrestling. Plus Title 9 absolutely crushed our sport...gotta give out schollies and start lady's sports programs that nobody watches/cares about. The thing that I think is interesting about that is outside women's bball/softball their other sports are massive economic losers but the schools are required to keep them ANYWAY.

 

Regarding building a team with out of state talent, the SEC schools pretty much wouldn't have any choice in the matter if they wanted to field a competitive top 10 type team. Sure, if they got ALL the southern talent they could maybe scrape together 1 halfway decent team.

 

Southern boys are soft and weak though. Best they stick to sports that use a ball, preferably one big enough they can't swallow it accidentally.

Edited by TobusRex

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