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Kyle Snyder the pinning machine?


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#1 Aviator12

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 01:53 AM

Kyle has obviously worked on some finishing moves to incorporate this season, having 4 pins in as many matches this season.

Snyder rarely if ever pinned in years past, almost like it was more fun for him to take his opponent down 25 times instead.

I think it's safe to assume Penn State's superstars are playing a part in this new approach for Kyle, and Tom Ryan has emphasized scoring bonus points as imperative for tOSU to compete with PSU come this season's end.

It's no secret that PSU's murderers row are bonus point savants, Nolf and Retherford in particular. Does anyone foresee Snyder keeping this up, or are these pins of his up to this point aberrations?

I ask because offsetting PSU's bonus points scored come tourney time will be essential for OSU to have a shot at the title... Could Kyle Snyder actually help become a great equalizer to one of Retherford or Nolf's bonus point scoring totals, and pin and tech his way through the tourney at a similar rate?

Something interesting to discuss I guess. Thoughts?

Edited by Aviator12, 09 January 2018 - 01:58 AM.


#2 MSU158

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:08 AM

Kyle has obviously worked on some finishing moves to incorporate this season, having 4 pins in as many matches this season.

Snyder rarely if ever pinned in years past, almost like it was more fun for him to take his opponent down 25 times instead.

I think it's safe to assume Penn State's superstars are playing a part in this new approach for Kyle, and Tom Ryan has emphasized scoring bonus points as imperative for tOSU to compete with PSU come this season's end.

It's no secret that PSU's murderers row are bonus point savants, Nolf and Retherford in particular. Does anyone foresee Snyder keeping this up, or are these pins of his up to this point aberrations?

I ask because offsetting PSU's bonus points scored come tourney time will be essential for OSU to have a shot at the title... Could Kyle Snyder actually help become a great equalizer to one of Retherford or Nolf's bonus point scoring totals, and pin and tech his way through the tourney at a similar rate?

Something interesting to discuss I guess. Thoughts?

I like to see it, and it may actually help put him over the top for the Hodge.  But, I don't see it going very far at NCAA's.  His style still isn't one that generates nearfall at a high rate and from the quarterfinals on he most likely won't see opponents that will go straight to their back off a snatch single.  Still, the focus is a major step in the right direction if tOSU wants to knock off PSU.


Edited by MSU158, 09 January 2018 - 02:08 AM.


#3 Housebuye

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:14 AM

His pinning technique is improving, but even for someone as talented as Kyle, it will take more time to develop his pinning ability. He isn't quite at the level to pin top level guys and I'm not sure if he will be by NCAAs. Maybe he will pin one or two guys (which is a lot of bonus) but I don't expect it from the quarters onwards. 

 

I do think he bonuses his way to the title, so something like 26 points is realistic. Still crazy.



#4 steamboat_charlie

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:44 AM

Kyle has obviously worked on some finishing moves to incorporate this season, having 4 pins in as many matches this season.

Snyder rarely if ever pinned in years past, almost like it was more fun for him to take his opponent down 25 times instead.

I think it's safe to assume Penn State's superstars are playing a part in this new approach for Kyle, and Tom Ryan has emphasized scoring bonus points as imperative for tOSU to compete with PSU come this season's end.

It's no secret the PSU's murderers row are bonus point savants, Nolf and Retherford in particular. Does anyone foresee Snyder keeping this up, or are these pins of his up to this point aberrations?

I ask because offsetting PSU's bonus points scored come tourney time will be essential for OSU to have a shot at the title... Could Kyle Snyder actually help become a great equalizer to one of Retherford or Nolf's bonus point scoring totals, and pin and tech his way through the tourney at a similar rate?

Something interesting to discuss I guess. Thoughts?

 

 

Let's see him pin a ranked opponent first.  The guys he's pinned thus far in all likelihood won't qualify for the tournament.  Snyder scored 24 pts last year at NCAA's, vs. 28 for Zain.  Maybe Snyder score somewhere between 25 - 27 points this year, throwing in an extra pin, but I don't really see this as the great equalizer for Ohio State vs. Penn State this year.  

 

The key to the team race is Ohio State's second tier, 133 - 157.  



#5 MSU158

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:55 AM

Let's see him pin a ranked opponent first.  The guys he's pinned thus far in all likelihood won't qualify for the tournament.  Snyder scored 24 pts last year at NCAA's, vs. 28 for Zain.  Maybe Snyder score somewhere between 25 - 27 points this year, throwing in an extra pin, but I don't really see this as the great equalizer for Ohio State vs. Penn State this year.  

 

The key to the team race is Ohio State's second tier, 133 - 157.  

Snyder alone isn't the equalizer, the whole TEAM's focus on pinning would be.  Just 1 more pin from all 10 qualifiers is anywhere from 5 to 20(depending on if  it replaces a dec.,MD or TF) more bonus pts.

 

tOSU scored 22.5 bonus pts last season.

 

PSU scored scored 32.5 bonus pts last season.

 

Just 1 more pin per guy negates any bonus pt. advantage for PSU!


Edited by MSU158, 09 January 2018 - 02:55 AM.

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#6 Aviator12

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:04 AM

His strategy as of late looks to first concentrate on taking his opponent down a good 3-4 times, then he starts to now look for an opening for a big finishing move, if it presents itself.

As his opponent gets more tired and in particular, more careless (as many do when it appears they are on their way of getting teched), it appears now Kyle's focus is to release his opponent while on their knees, and hell keep a hand on their neck waiting for them to make a mistake.

No one is in a hurry to get up after being taken down at will, ESPECIALLY heavies, so the difference I see with Kyle this year is he's now like a predator ready to attack its prey. Kyle is simply looking to finish his opponents he's wearing out, which he never did in years past.

He'll never be a great pinner in conventional ways, but not too many people other than Nolf can Snyder take D1 opponents down at will like they are wrestling their grandmothers and take the will out of these guys which produce the necessary openings to finish.

Snyder just finished Rutgers HWY with a high school cowcatcher move because the kid made a mistake raising his arm, and Snyder pounced like he was obviously waiting for it.

Nolf just pinned a decent Jacob Danishek from Indiana with a freaking cement mixer of all things, and didn't do so because he's an elite cement mixer technician. He did so because Danishek became careless laying on all fours and was not paying attention staring down at the mat trying to collect himself. Similar to Snyder, Nolf pounced on him once noticing, and got him in this situation because Danishek was trying to gather himself from being taken down at will from Nolf.

My point with this comparison is I think Snyder will pin more than people think now that he's concentrating on it, and not because he's a tremendous mat wrestler ( like 99% of all other great pinners), but because no one takes and wears their opponents down like Snyder (other than Nolf) and the fact he's doing it against HWY's instead of 157's lends Snyder even more to it's advantage.

Just my opinion, that all.
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#7 steamboat_charlie

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:15 AM

Snyder alone isn't the equalizer, the whole TEAM's focus on pinning would be.  Just 1 more pin from all 10 qualifiers is anywhere from 5 to 20(depending on if  it replaces a dec.,MD or TF) more bonus pts.

 

tOSU scored 22.5 bonus pts last season.

 

PSU scored scored 32.5 bonus pts last season.

 

Just 1 more pin per guy negates any bonus pt. advantage for PSU!

 

Fair enough, every point counts.  I just feel that there's significantly more variability related to placement for the 2nd tier guys.  McKenna DNP vs. McKenna placing 4th is a 10+ point swing.  Snyder can pin his way to the title and not make up for that difference.  



#8 LemonPie

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:35 AM

Most of his pins are from guys giving up.   Gross did the same against Stoll.   He'll get techs at NCAAs.  


Edited by LemonPie, 09 January 2018 - 03:37 AM.

Anyone but Heil '18

 

http://contenttolosebythree.com


#9 repechange

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:44 AM

NaTo won't likely be in the finals this year so they are going to have to make up ground somewhere.

#10 Housebuye

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:43 AM

NaTo won't likely be in the finals this year so they are going to have to make up ground somewhere.

I’d say his chances of making the finals is 50% or so. Who do you have beating him?

I think suriano, Cruz and Lee all have a chance with Lizak having an outside shot

#11 repechange

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 05:10 AM

I see NaTo losing to a Bresser level opponent. Someone tough and not necessarily top tier. With the injury and fewer matches I think he falls to the field. I like Spencer Lee but I think he falls to the field also and scrapes back to 3rd or 4th.

#12 treep2000

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 05:36 AM

this is a fun thread, but the NaTo comment got me thinking...

* Yes... his injury and fewer matches give me pause... but... 

* NaTo's past credentials would indicate that he is at, or very very near the level of the pinnacle at both 125lbs / 57kg (freestyle). 

* Bresser, and for the most part, the rest of the 125 crew isn't there this year, except for Fix (who is redshirting).  

* Lee "could" be there, but he just did lose to Bresser, and we haven't seen him compete at 57kg FS

* Cruz was whipped at WTT, and NaTo is a National Team Member, spanking Graff in the process, while losing to the World Silver by 2 pts.

 

All in all, I still think NaTo is the favorite to win, and any loss would be considered a mild upset.  The margins are super close, but still the favorite. 

 

Back to Snyder...

* I think he'll significantly up his pinning game for the remainder of his senior year... but... to the points made earlier, he is not going to pin his way to the NC.  He's just not that kind of wrestler.  Think about the "great" pinners of lore... they were known as pinners, not as TD artists, as Snyder is known for. 

* I agree that tOSU needs NaTo to max out his upside, along with some of the lower ranked guys on the roster (i.e. Campbell, Micah, McKenna, Pletch).  BoJo is top 3 (so long as he continues his past results), MyMar is 1/2, depending on which level he has truly jumped to, and Moore is the current favorite at 197.  

 

Regardless... fun topic!  Thank for starting it!


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#13 dmm53

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 06:00 AM

Four pins over zero ranked guys.   Snyder does not deserve Hodge consideration.   He is far, far from being the best *folkstyle* wrestler this year or any year.  His freestyle and international results are irrelevant.  



#14 hammerlockthree

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 06:18 AM

Why is everyone so down on Nato? The season is way too long anyway, he's probably at a significant advantage for having gotten hurt.



#15 MSU158

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 06:33 AM

Four pins over zero ranked guys.   Snyder does not deserve Hodge consideration.   He is far, far from being the best *folkstyle* wrestler this year or any year.  His freestyle and international results are irrelevant.  

Although I have made the same argument against Snyder, due to shortened schedule and lack of pinning, many would still pick him anyway.  Now, if he can get himself 10 or so pins and 20 matches or so, it will be hard for him to not get the nod.

 

Also, it isn't fair to say 4 pins over unranked guys.  Here are the 4(plus Joseph) that lead the list and NONE of them have a pin over a ranked opponent:

 

 Retherford's 14-0  Ryan Deakin was his only opponent in the Top 20

 

 Nolf's 14-0 Finesilver was his only opponent in the Top 20

 

Joseph is 9-0 and Steiert was redshirting so he has beaten 0 top 20 guys.

 

Hall is 16-0 with 2 nice wins over Kutler, but that is it for top 20 opponents.

 

Nickal is 14-0 and has 2 top 20 wins over Preisch and Foster.


Edited by MSU158, 09 January 2018 - 06:34 AM.


#16 hammerlockthree

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 06:42 AM

Snyder should get the Hodge. His lack of pins is a direct result of the fact that this is his JV schedule....


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#17 dmm53

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 08:16 AM

Although I have made the same argument against Snyder, due to shortened schedule and lack of pinning, many would still pick him anyway.  Now, if he can get himself 10 or so pins and 20 matches or so, it will be hard for him to not get the nod.

 

Also, it isn't fair to say 4 pins over unranked guys.  Here are the 4(plus Joseph) that lead the list and NONE of them have a pin over a ranked opponent:

 

 Retherford's 14-0  Ryan Deakin was his only opponent in the Top 20

 

 Nolf's 14-0 Finesilver was his only opponent in the Top 20

 

Joseph is 9-0 and Steiert was redshirting so he has beaten 0 top 20 guys.

 

Hall is 16-0 with 2 nice wins over Kutler, but that is it for top 20 opponents.

 

Nickal is 14-0 and has 2 top 20 wins over Preisch and Foster.

Nolf also pinned Paul Fox, who is a top 20, at least according to Flo.    I guess we will learn more as teams enter into the heart of their schedules.   Snyder might get a sympathy or popularity vote, but he is decidedly not in the same league as Nolf or Retherford in terms of folkstyle *dominance*. He will have far fewer matches, too.  I would also argue he is unlikely to pin top ten guys in his weight whereas Nolf and Retherford have shown proven ability to do so.   



#18 treep2000

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 09:57 AM

Nolf also pinned Paul Fox, who is a top 20, at least according to Flo.    I guess we will learn more as teams enter into the heart of their schedules.   Snyder might get a sympathy or popularity vote, but he is decidedly not in the same league as Nolf or Retherford in terms of folkstyle *dominance*. He will have far fewer matches, too.  I would also argue he is unlikely to pin top ten guys in his weight whereas Nolf and Retherford have shown proven ability to do so.   

 

This just in!!!!  dmm53 is the screen name of the one, the only, Kyven Gadsen, hence, his reluctance in supporting Snyder in anything he does!  

 

Seriously tho... chill dude... Any "reasonable person" knows that he's not wrestling the schedule needed to win the Hodge, especially over the likes of Zain and Nolf, and what they are about to unleash on their ranked schedule.  

 

But... Snyder's folkstyle resume, aside from his Runner Up to Gadsen, his true frosh year at NCAA's, and the 2 other 1 point losses, only goes to show that his folkstyle career is STILL a top flight one.  Maybe not on par with the all-timers, but... I'd much rather have his international resume to boot, than just his NCAA's.  

 

Why naysayers continue to exist and spout against Snyder is beyond me.  He's become a hero in many ways in this sport.  Embrace it.  He's one of the "good guys".



#19 Housebuye

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 10:00 AM

Four pins over zero ranked guys.   Snyder does not deserve Hodge consideration.   He is far, far from being the best *folkstyle* wrestler this year or any year.  His freestyle and international results are irrelevant.  

I feel like people miss the point of the Hodge. It isn't the most dominant award. They have that too. There is a tremendous amount of subjectivity in it deliberately. 

 

It is clear that Snyder is one of, if not the best wrestler to wrestle in college EVER. Who cares if he doesn't have as many matches or pins? I understand that that is part of the technical criteria, but there is plenty of precedent to show that they don't stick to the criteria completely. For the same reason, they rarely give a guy the Hodge twice in a row, even if the numbers suggest it. 

 

Snyder should get it. If not, the Hodge loses some of it's value. 



#20 Aviator12

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 10:03 AM

Wrestlers are tough, confident individuals and I know most look forward to being challenged with the competition they face... I get that. But I just can't imagine what goes through some of these D1 HWY's minds when they find out they are wrestling Snyder, literally regarded by many as the best wrestler in the world. I'm sure many look forward to the challenge... but you can bet there are also some who react the exact opposite. I know it's a great story one day to tell your grandkids that you wrestled Snyder but no one looks forward to being a drilling partner dummy in front of a packed house at home.




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