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Aviator12

Kyle Snyder the pinning machine?

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Ok fine, derek st john is one of the best riders ever.

 

 

Stop being obtuse. His riding didn't get him to 3 ncaa titles. Cox was just about a "lock" to pick up RT on most his opponents. He even was a top tier rider his true freshman year.

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st.john was just as good on top as Cox, just much worse on this feet.

 

No he wasn't. St. John didn't have nearly the success on top that Cox had. If he were better on top, he'd probably have more national championships.

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What in the world are you talking about? When have I mentioned that I think that most people here know what I'm talking about??? In reality, the opposite is probably true. And are you really this dull? Retherford's win over Collica is not the worst match of his career. Retherford has three career losses. A statistics warrior (i.e. a person without any true understanding of a given sport outside of some statistics) such as yourself should know that. 

 

I'm not focusing on one result. I'm not ignoring the positives. Stop resorting to spreading mistruths to prove your ridiculous point. I just merely pointed out that Retherford is not guaranteed to put a "brutal" ride on Snyder. This isn't the only time that has happened in his career. The same thing happened with Sorenson, and I believe Port too.  I also gave you Snyder's escaping Cox as a piece of evidence to show what Snyder could do on the bottom. Again, Cox is one of the best riders of all time and Snyder handled that just fine. 

 

And when did I say that you said Retherford is better? Where? I didn't say this. You make things up so often that I should conclude that you do it intentionally to make everyone else's position seem as ridiculous as yours. It's as though you really know that your opinion is nonsensical so you try to create the illusion of a good back-and-forth debate, when in reality, your opponent actually has the much better position. When you have to resort to make-believe, that's usually a good sign that you should abandon your argument.

 

Yes, Snyder was ridden by Jensen. Snyder also escaped without trouble from the much larger Connor Medberry in the ncaa final. Medberry was the best heavyweight on top last year. When the lights are brightest, Snyder wrestles his best. He can escape when he absolutely has to. If he had to escape vs. Jensen, do you doubt he could have? The fact that Snyder consistently escapes when he absolutely has to should be taken into consideration, especially when he's able to do so vs. much larger opponents. Snyder hasn't shown a consistent weakness on the mat, yet you make it seem like it's certain that he "would" have a hard time with Retherford. Retherford has shown far more weakness on his feet than Snyder has on bottom, but it isn't equally certain that Snyder "would" overwhelm him on his feet? Why not? You seem to have a bias against Snyder.

 

 

You are so dishonest MSU158. Look at you shamelessly setting up strawmen and then knocking them down and pretending that you are being reasonable.  I never said that you said Dean was better than, or would definitely beat, Snyder. So why even mention that??? "Nothing you could say could prove that fact wrong"... are you serious? I never said that was a fact, I never said that you said that. This seems like it's just a distraction that you created to ignore from what you actually did say. Let's focus on that.

 

"...In folkstyle, Dean and him would be a toss-up"---That's what you said. You think that match is a toss-up because you believe Dean would slow Snyder down due to his "neck clubbing". Be honest, are you so embarrassed by this statement now that you don't actually want to address what you originally said? You talk about what you didn't say (which I didn't even accuse you of saying) rather than what you did say. "...in regards to Dean, I believed his style was enough to slow down Snyder and make it hard for him to get to his offense." Yeah, but that's not all. You think it's enough to slow him down to the point that the very result is in doubt. And you weren't talking about a one-time thing either, you thought that Dean was good enough to consistently wrestle Snyder that way! You're talking about a match that would mostly be contested on the feet. Probably 6+ out of 7 minutes on the feet. In that time, you think that Dean would be able to go even with or win the tie-ups and handfighting battle with Snyder.  That "neck-clubbing" is going to be enough to stop Snyder; serving as an equalizer. To put it simply, you suggested that Dean would be able to win the takedown battle with Snyder. The match would be a toss-up because the neutral wrestling would be! Absurd! If you can't tell that Snyder is considerably more skilled than Dean on his feet (in ties, handfighting, positioning, footwork, takedowns, finishing) there's really not much hope for you. You haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. Perhaps sticking to ncaa breakdowns where Penn State finishes no higher than second is what you should stick to. Well, then again, maybe there is some hope for you. Since you try mightily to avoid what you actually said about Dean/Snyder, maybe that shows that deep down you realize how stupid your comments were and are rightfully embarrassed by them. Don't let that shame go to waste. Learn from it and change your ways.

 

 

 

Is it possible that you are upset because you know I'm right about the few major arguments that I have made on themat? It seems that way. I won't apologize for being right just because it hurts your feelings/ego in some way. That's your personal issue.

I knew you needed to not only get the last word in, but you wrote a literal garbled up novel(of course I read next to none of it).

 

I 100% completely disagree with most of what you say, quite honestly.  In no way am I upset.  If I was I would continue to argue with you.  Instead, I said my part and you can keep ranting yours.  Good luck with that(and your next comment will indeed be the last word on this topic between you and I, so you will get that too)!!

Edited by MSU158

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No he wasn't. St. John didn't have nearly the success on top that Cox had. If he were better on top, he'd probably have more national championships.

 

Yes guys! If St John was better on top he would have more national championships and beaten Bubba Jenkins, Kyle Dake, and Alex Dieringer.

Dieringer wasn't even that good to begin with and Dake we all know never wins anything when he comes to fantasy.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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I knew you needed to not only get the last word in, but you wrote a literal garbled up novel(of course I read next to none of it).

 

I 100% completely disagree with most of what you say, quite honestly.  In no way am I upset.  If I was I would continue to argue with you.  Instead, I said my part and you can keep ranting yours.  Good luck with that(and your next comment will indeed be the last word on this topic between you and I, so you will get that too)!!

 

 

You and I both know that you read my entire post MSU158. You regularly post stupid things, and are upset that I constantly correct your falsehoods. You should thank me for gently leading you towards the truth, you don't deserve such grace. 

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Yes guys! If St John was better on top he would have more national championships and beaten Bubba Jenkins, Kyle Dake, and Alex Dieringer.

Dieringer wasn't even that good to begin with and Dake we all know never wins anything when he comes to fantasy.

 

What you claimed that I said about Alex Dieringer, I never once said. 

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I'm also gonna point out that BTFB named two guys better on top than Cox while just listing random contemporaries of Derek St. John.....

 

 

You couldn't even recognize Mark Hall's folkstyle talent, remember that? You, like MSU158, are oftentimes wrong and you don't even realize it. Don't you agree with MSU158 that it is hard to tell who was better between Chris Pendleton and Kyle Dake in their last two years even though Dake was undefeated and Pendleton lost matches as a junior and senior? Also, you believed, against all the evidence, that Taylor was a "better wrestler" than Dake. Remember that? 

 

Btw, those contemporaries of St. John were also two of the best ncaa wrestlers ever too. 

Edited by bigmik

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You and I both know that you read my entire post MSU158. You regularly post stupid things, and are upset that I constantly correct your falsehoods. You should thank me for gently leading you towards the truth, you don't deserve such grace. 

In the immortal words of wrestlingnerd, "you wanna bet 10k that I read what you posted?"  

 

I will gladly pay the fees to to submit to a lie detector test to confirm prior to your sending me my winnings.

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Did you read what I wrote? I wrote that If St John's top game was better he would have beaten them? Do you disagree?

 

Not all of them, as Kyle Dake was out of his talent bracket. He did beat Dieringer. I think he could have beaten Jenkins too. Jenkins was very inconsistent and lost to kids considerably worse than St. John. A loss to St. John is not out of the question.

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Not all of them, as Kyle Dake was out of his talent bracket. He did beat Dieringer. I think he could have beaten Jenkins too. Jenkins was very inconsistent and lost to kids considerably worse than St. John. A loss to St. John is not out of the question.

Sooo...

 

Dake > St John! Dake's first fantasy win!

 

St John > Dieringer No Biggie, Dieringers not that good.

 

St John > Jenkins > D.Taylor > St John > Jenkins > D Taylor > St John > Jenkins > D.Taylor > St John > Jenkins > D Taylor > St John > Jenkins > D.Taylor > St John > Jenkins > D Taylor > St John > Jenkins > D.Taylor > St John > Jenkins > D Taylor > St John > Jenkins > D.Taylor > St John > Jenkins > D Taylor > St John > Jenkins > D.Taylor > St John > Jenkins > D Taylor > St John > Jenkins > D.Taylor > St John > Jenkins > D Taylor > St John > Jenkins > D.Taylor > St John > Jenkins > D Taylor > St John > Jenkins > I just goes on forever!

 

If St John was better on top he would have won NCAA's in 2011, 2013, and 2014, but not 2012 cuz Dake would have stopped him there.

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In the immortal words of wrestlingnerd, "you wanna bet 10k that I read what you posted?"  

 

I will gladly pay the fees to to submit to a lie detector test to confirm prior to your sending me my winnings.

 

"Instead, I said my part and you can keep ranting yours.  Good luck with that(and your next comment will indeed be the last word on this topic between you and I, so you will get that too)!!"

 

What happened to your last comment being the last one, from you, between us? It's a good thing Tbar1977 is around to distract you, otherwise your obsession with me would never take a break.

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You couldn't even recognize Mark Hall's folkstyle talent, remember that? You, like MSU158, are oftentimes wrong and you don't even realize it. Don't you agree with MSU158 that it is hard to tell who was better between Chris Pendleton and Kyle Dake in their last two years even though Dake was undefeated and Pendleton lost matches as a junior and senior? Also, you believed, against all the evidence, that Taylor was a "better wrestler" than Dake. Remember that? 

 

Btw, those contemporaries of St. John were also two of the best ncaa wrestlers ever too. 

Lol, yet again ONLY the 1 loss per season matters to you.  He lost once to Askren out of how many times?  The other was an admitted early season gas out after he was comfortably in the lead.  John Smith even confirmed that and has gone on record as stating that they do not focus on conditioning until later in the season, and as a result many of his elite wrestlers have taken early season losses but have gone on to be top notch at NCAA's.

 

Pendleton was "Elite" his last 2 years.  You can dispute that all you want.  Dake was also elite.  If forced to choose, I would definitely pick Dake, but I wouldn't have been the least bit surprised if Pendleton took a match from him since he was very good at finishing quickly and crisply and that was the only way you were taking Dake down those last 2 seasons.

 

Now, you can go on and on saying that comparing them is folly.  I absolutely disagree and pointing to 1 sole loss(because the loss to Askren in NO WAY discredits him) to try to prove your point is weak at best.  Good luck with that and I will again NOT be responding to your inevitably long and garbled response to this topic as well.

 

Edited to add:  Unless you say something so stupid yet again that allows me to guarantee I could offer a 10k bet and win easily.

Edited by MSU158

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"Instead, I said my part and you can keep ranting yours.  Good luck with that(and your next comment will indeed be the last word on this topic between you and I, so you will get that too)!!"

 

What happened to your last comment being the last one, from you, between us? It's a good thing Tbar1977 is around to distract you, otherwise your obsession with me would never take a break.

It was worth the 10k for me to break rank on that.  Are you willing to make that bet?  Or, are you going to change the subject yet again?

 

Edited to add:It was the last comment on the exact topic.  You have a tendency to rant and go off topic and try to bring up old arguments that have nothing to do with the argument to try to misdirect.  I reserve the right to make a quick correction on those before also bowing out to your inevitable last word.

 

In each case I also reserve the right to offer a 10k bet each time your ridiculousness needs to be 100% shut down.

Edited by MSU158

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BigTenFanboy,

 

Are you under the impression that I have a low view of Dake? I probably have the highest view of him here outside of some rabid Cornell fans. Because I believe in order and hierarchy, I won't say just how good I believe this kid to be until he wins his first World championship.

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It was worth the 10k for me to break rank on that.  Are you willing to make that bet?  Or, are you going to change the subject yet again?

 

Stupid bet and you are a very untrustworthy person. It's sad that you have to resort to dishonesty to make your nonsensical points. 

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BigTenFanboy,

 

Are you under the impression that I have a low view of Dake? I probably have the highest view of him here outside of some rabid Cornell fans. Because I believe in order and hierarchy, I won't say just how good I believe this kid to be until he wins his first World championship

 

maybe, but your view of Dake is still lower than your view of bigmik.

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