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AMastrandrea

Jordan Oliver

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True

 

"Amphetamine is a potent central nervous system stimulant that is used in the treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, narcolepsy, and obesity."

 

I did wonder if I was being naive, either way it's a shame since he's so fun to watch

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Rule seems pretty clear. Unfortunate with the timing but TUE’s are pretty common and for him not to have even applied for one makes him and his coaches look pretty silly. I mean, Zeke used to be the head coach of our freakin national team, how does a coach like him let this slip through?

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The big question for him now relates to the 2018 WTT qualifying procedures.  The tentative procedures that were announced in November would make it impossible for him to qualify.   The official procedures are supposed to come out in the next couple weeks.  They could still schedule a Last Chance event (like they usually do) in May -- that would be his path to the Trials.

 

But if they don't make any changes to the the tentative procedures, his 1 year suspension is effectively a 2 year suspension as it relates to Worlds.  If that happens, the punishment sure does not seem to fit the crime (mistake),

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Ouch, that's really bad timing. Based on the write-up, the incident actually sounded somewhat innocuous - JO tested positive for amphetamines due to something he was taking to treat a medical condition.  He then submitted his medication to the USADA, and they confirmed it was likely what was detected. That medication could have been Adderal, Ritalin or ADHD meds, which typically contain amphetamines, but who knows.

 

Agree it's a huge process SNAFU by JO and his coaches, and I do hope also that USAW decides to schedule a last chance qualifier. As food for thought, who knows if we would've brought back a medal at 57kg if Gilman hadn't qualified for trials at the last chance event. Before that, I believe Dake participated in the last chance qualifier coming back off of injuries. If Oliver's USADA infraction was more oversight than nefariousness, I would love to see him get a crack at trials this year.

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Just saw the Flo article that he'll miss an opportunity to qualify for the WTT by TWO friggin' days. Brutal. It was supposed to be a one-year ban and has effectively turned into two. I suppose this may force JO to travel more, which he has been reluctant to do in the past, once 4/29 rolls along and he is able to compete again.

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I'd like to believe that JO just forgot to disclose his Ritalin, or whatever. However, it seems unlikely a National Team member coached by the former National Team Coach would forget something like this. I'm 50/50 whether or not he actually did something wrong. 

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I'd like to believe that JO just forgot to disclose his Ritalin, or whatever. However, it seems unlikely a National Team member coached by the former National Team Coach would forget something like this. I'm 50/50 whether or not he actually did something wrong. 

Much the same.  I don't know the man, but working in a high school I see how Ritalin and other such drugs are abused.  Knowing JO's history of weight problems, it's suspicious he drops dirty with a load of amphetamine in his system.  As you said, not really any excuse for a national team member with a national team coach supervising.

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I've written this before and gotten flamed, but the reality is that some drugs help and others REALLY help. What JO took was way on the mild side of the spectrum (as opposed to, say, the anabolic steroid turinabol that Jon Jones most recently popped for, which is a game changer). He probably used it to help his cut. He has been known to be over 180 in some off-seasons, so the motivation is there whether that's why he took it or not.

 

In other words, his actual on-the-mat performance was not enhanced, or not meaningfully, by this drug. I don't see how.

 

That said, with the new 2-hour weigh-in rules, and JO being a big cutter, if he was indeed using "help" to get down to weight and now can't.... That's more a cause for concern. He may be too gassed to wrestle his best after the much tougher cut now. I somewhat recently ran into JO and he did not look anywhere near as big as I've seen him in the past when not competing, so maybe he has taken this hiatus to control his weight better.

 

I hope Housebeye is right and JO will be able to qualify in the end. One year suspension was more than adequate for what JO did, whether inadvertently or not. Two years would be ludicrous.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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I think a guy who trains with his metabolism jacked with stimulants certainly does receive a benefit in his capacity to train more intensely when he is dragging.  Getting a metabolic pick-me-up when needed/desired is a great advantage that can contribute to conditioning and sharpness.

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I think a guy who trains with his metabolism jacked with stimulants certainly does receive a benefit in his capacity to train more intensely when he is dragging.  Getting a metabolic pick-me-up when needed/desired is a great advantage that can contribute to conditioning and sharpness.

 

You're overstating it. It's not a great advantage. In fact, for match-time performance, it could be a DISadvantage to have your central nervous system all jacked up and jittery and your heart pounding. Anyway, whatever advantage is conferred is more suitable to an endurance sport than a 6-minute stop-and-go sport like wrestling. It's a modest advantage to maybe cut the weight, but those stimulants are very temporary and clear out of your system within an hour or two. There are no permanent physical gains like with, say, dbol or tbol or a hardcore PED, and nowhere near the very sharp long-term performance gains.

 

I'm not being an apologist. JO cheated. Whether he did so inadvertently or not is not even relevant anymore, so I'm not going to over-speculate. He did his time, period. BUT... let the punishment fit the (small) crime. A year is plenty; two would be absurd.

 

My main point is that the JO we saw out there winning the world team spot was the "real" JO or damn close to it.

 

Here are a couple of studies on the effect of stimulants. One finds them DISadvntageous. The other slightly advantageous but only after 10 minutes at 85% VO2Max (i.e. not applicable to wrestling).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25840827

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15179180

 

Every similar study I've read has similar results, with none pointing to a great advantage for wrestlers. There are some "studies" (if they can truly be called that) sponsored by supplement companies that say otherwise, but caveat lector....

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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You're overstating it. It's not a great advantage. In fact, for match-time performance, it could be a DISadvantage to have your central nervous system all jacked up and jittery and your heart pounding. Anyway, whatever advantage is conferred is more suitable to an endurance sport than a 6-minute stop-and-go sport like wrestling. It's a modest advantage to maybe cut the weight, but those stimulants are very temporary and clear out of your system within an hour or two. There are no permanent physical gains like with, say, dbol or tbol or a hardcore PED, and nowhere near the very sharp long-term performance gains.

 

I'm not being an apologist. JO cheated. Whether he did so inadvertently or not is not even relevant anymore, so I'm not going to over-speculate. He did his time, period. BUT... let the punishment fit the (small) crime. A year is plenty; two would be absurd.

 

My main point is that the JO we saw out there winning the world team spot was the "real" JO or damn close to it.

 

Here are a couple of studies on the effect of stimulants. One finds them DISadvntageous. The other slightly advantageous but only after 10 minutes at 85% VO2Max (i.e. not applicable to wrestling).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25840827

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15179180

 

Every similar study I've read has similar results, with none pointing to a great advantage for wrestlers. There are some "studies" (if they can truly be called that) sponsored by supplement companies that say otherwise, but caveat lector....

Fair enough, but if used to get you through those two days a week that you feel too beat to train 100%, over an entire training cycle you will see an increase in overall conditioning that would not be there if you didn't train those days or just went 60%.

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I understand that JO is also recovering from a surgery.  If true, before the surgery symptoms might have something to do with this.  I think the USADA could give a 2 day grace time in this case if JO wants to compete.  363 days is not much different than 365 days and allows him not to miss a second season.  Or a  last chance qualifier would do it too.

 

mspart

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 The sample came up very low for the amphetamine, which backed up his story of taking a med 5 days before. It was not for performance, simply because there was very little of the substance left in him. 

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Something like psudeophedrine (sp) will give a help in work outs. Basically caffeine with a kick. It helps move along a work out but doesn't help with recovery or anything. Raises the BP some but it can actually help a work out. Doesn't kill your appetite like real "speed".  I am pretty sure it is banned. Probably something like that. Kind of dumb to take it though. It doesn't help that much. 

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If USA wrestling is genuinely committed to ensuring the best wrestlers are on the WT, they will find a way for JO to be at WTTs.

 

It is within their prerogative to do so.

 

If they don’t invite him, they will lose a lot of credibility.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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 The sample came up very low for the amphetamine, which backed up his story of taking a med 5 days before. It was not for performance, simply because there was very little of the substance left in him. 

 

I can believe that. Low dosages do literally nothing athletically worthwhile. 

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Something like psudeophedrine (sp) will give a help in work outs. Basically caffeine with a kick. It helps move along a work out but doesn't help with recovery or anything. Raises the BP some but it can actually help a work out. Doesn't kill your appetite like real "speed".  I am pretty sure it is banned. Probably something like that. Kind of dumb to take it though. It doesn't help that much. 

 

That stuff is in cough and cold medicine or decongestant, which is why you need to show ID at the drugstore now because of people doing dumb stuff with that.  He might have just had a cold or bad allergies or something.  If I had to get USADA drug tested a couple weeks ago I'd probably have failed because I was doped up on all kinds of cold and cough medicine.  You really think I'm paying attention to what's in it?  As long as it relieves symptoms and is over the counter then I'm gonna take it.  But something that could get you popped for a doping violating is in that stuff.  There's 30mg of pseudoephedrine in each of the tablets in the nasal decongestant I took.  Take 2 of those every 4 to 6 hours and don't take more than 8 per day, I could see that happening.  

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