Jump to content


Photo

Cruz goes 34-0...Returning NCAA Champ


  • Please log in to reply
43 replies to this topic

#1 NJwrestlingguy

NJwrestlingguy

    Silver Member

  • Members
  • 1,810 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 11:40 AM

at same weight. Cruz Has to get  the #1 NCAA seed. I keep reading where folks think he won't?  The All star loss and getting beat by Suriano last season has everyone questioning that seed but don't think that will make any change in seeding.  Am I wrong?  If NATO runs the table he will be 15-0  and probably the only other shot at #1 seed. 125lbs in Cleveland will be a Great Story!


Edited by NJwrestlingguy, 09 January 2018 - 11:52 AM.


#2 Perry

Perry

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 2,698 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:15 PM

Last year's results and the all star are not a factor in seeding criteria.

#3 maolsen

maolsen

    Bronze Member

  • Members
  • 488 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:20 PM

People put way to much weight on the Suriano loss. The Cruz that won the Ncaas imo was a different animal then the one Suriano disposed of. That being said there is a lot of talent here, Suriano, Nato, Lee, and Cruz all have the talent, then you add guys like Bresser who has successfully knocked off Lee, and kept in striking distance between Fix and Suriano. Its an interesting weight.

#4 wrestlingnerd

wrestlingnerd

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 7,741 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 01:05 PM

“Could” and “has to” are very different.

The seeding criteria assign no value to Cruz’s historical accolades beyond this season’s. Lee and Nato have wrestled too few matches (and Lee has an official loss now) to get 1 no matter what they do. But if Suriano runs the table, he’s most likely to get 1. He’d be ahead of Cruz on strength of schedule, very likely on Coaches’ rankings (coaches would favor the much tougher B1G schedule and remember the All-Star loss, which isn’t supposed to count in the record but can not reasonably be ignored by all human coaches), and he’s be a wash with Cruz on everything else. Cruz might get RPI over Suriano, although how that’s calculated has always been a mystery to me.

#5 Housebuye

Housebuye

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 4,462 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:14 PM

If Suriano or NATO goes undefeated then they will likely have better wins, so I think they would get the #1 seed

I’m not sure how much it matters, seeing as there are so many hammers here. Who would you rather wrestle? Suriano? NATO? Lee? Cruz?

Next tier is almost as good. Piccininni? Lizak? Bresser? Rivera? Hayes?

This weight class is nuts

#6 TobusRex

TobusRex

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 3,799 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:15 PM

Cruz has earned the #1 seed so far. Hes' the returning champ and officially undefeated (all star match doesn't count against record). He's been crushing everybody he's faced in the regular season so far.

 

Frankly I don't think Tomasello has wrestled enough this year to earn a seed, despite his past credentials.


Edited by TobusRex, 09 January 2018 - 02:15 PM.


#7 BigTenFanboy

BigTenFanboy

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 5,004 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:22 PM

If Suriano or NATO goes undefeated then they will likely have better wins, so I think they would get the #1 seed
I’m not sure how much it matters, seeing as there are so many hammers here. Who would you rather wrestle? Suriano? NATO? Lee? Cruz?
Next tier is almost as good. Piccininni? Lizak? Bresser? Rivera? Hayes?
This weight class is nuts

Don't forget Fausz and Lamont.

Granted it was a few years ago and a lot has changed but Moisey has a few wins over Cruz and also is a former NCAA finalist. If he gets hot like he did in 2015, ANYTHING'S POSSIBLE, not "Anything's possible."

Edited by BigTenFanboy, 09 January 2018 - 02:23 PM.


#8 Housebuye

Housebuye

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 4,462 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:24 PM

Cruz has earned the #1 seed so far. Hes' the returning champ and officially undefeated (all star match doesn't count against record). He's been crushing everybody he's faced in the regular season so far.

Frankly I don't think Tomasello has wrestled enough this year to earn a seed, despite his past credentials.

If he goes undefeated, he will be 8-0 going into Post season, so I have to assume he will go to an open or two to double that or so. He could go into NCAAs around 20-0, with wins over Lizak, Lee, and Suriano plus Top 10 Martin and Fauz.

He would be the #1 seed.

I am not all that confident that happens.

I’m not even sure if he goes undefeated in his next two matches (Lee, Lizak) and I’m a huge NATO fan. Those are tough matches when you are peaking, let alone when you are wrestling your 2nd and 3rd matches after an injury. NATO has had some problems getting out in the past and is going against possibly the two best riders in the weight class.

Combine that with potentially some cardio issues due to him coming off of injury and cutting hard, and he could feasibly lose both.

#9 Housebuye

Housebuye

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 4,462 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:25 PM

Don't forget Fausz and Lamont.

Granted it was a few years ago and a lot has changed but Moisey has a few wins over Cruz and also is a former NCAA finalist. If he gets hot like he did in 2015, ANYTHING'S POSSIBLE, not "Anything's possible."

Totally agree. I highly doubt the top 4 are Lee, NATO, Suriano and Cruz, even though I think they are the 4 best guys. There are too many hammers at 125.

#10 wrestlingnerd

wrestlingnerd

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 7,741 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:26 PM

I don’t see how Nato gets seeded 1 given how few matches he’ll have wrestled. Not sure he gets it even if he pins his way through B1Gs. Cruz is going to make his case by torching the field at EIWAs too.

125 really is crazy this year, especially with the emergence of Bresser and Rivera. I don’t remember a returning NCAA finalist being less talked about, maybe ever. And it’s not even disrespect for Lizak. The weight is that stacked.

Edited by wrestlingnerd, 09 January 2018 - 02:26 PM.

  • Housebuye likes this

#11 BigTenFanboy

BigTenFanboy

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 5,004 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:28 PM

Totally agree. I highly doubt the top 4 are Lee, NATO, Suriano and Cruz, even though I think they are the 4 best guys. There are too many hammers at 125.


With how crazy things can get at NCAA's is possible one of those 4 could miss the podium. I'm not predicting it but one bad match early on and I won't rule it out.
  • Housebuye likes this

#12 Housebuye

Housebuye

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 4,462 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 02:31 PM

I don’t see how Nato gets seeded 1 given how few matches he’ll have wrestled. Not sure he gets it even if he pins his way through B1Gs. Cruz is going to make his case by torching the field at EIWAs too.

125 really is crazy this year, especially with the emergence of Bresser and Rivera. I don’t remember a returning NCAA finalist being less talked about, maybe ever. And it’s not even disrespect for Lizak. The weight is that stacked.

He might hit 17+ matches. He will have 8 matches or sure plus an open or two, plus BIG10s.

He only had 7 matches by this time last season and had 12 matches prior to NCAAs in 2017. Tom Ryan has already suggested he would go to an Open, so:

8 regular matches
6 Open matches
3 big 10 matches

17 prior to NCAAs

#13 wrestlingnerd

wrestlingnerd

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 7,741 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:32 PM

And Cruz will have like 26 or 27. I guess number of matches isn’t really given much weighting (5% last year), so if Nato really does go out of his way to add that many and runs the table and wins B1Gs, he could get, and maybe even should, get it. You’ve convinced me. Quality wins is second biggest criterion with a 20% weighting (head to head is first but irrelevant here). Winning B1Gs should be enough.

#14 hammerlockthree

hammerlockthree

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 3,473 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:36 PM

i am sure he'll get it if he wins out



#15 Gantry

Gantry

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 5,485 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:59 PM

 I don’t remember a returning NCAA finalist being less talked about, maybe ever. And it’s not even disrespect for Lizak. The weight is that stacked.

 

Matt Murray?  Ryan Lang? 



#16 hammerlockthree

hammerlockthree

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 3,473 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:04 PM

was matt Murray a finalist? and Lang bumped up a weight a took a bunch of beatings.



#17 Gantry

Gantry

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 5,485 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:08 PM

was matt Murray a finalist? and Lang bumped up a weight a took a bunch of beatings.

 

Murray was a finalist his junior year. The fact that you can't remember solidifies my point!

 

And yes Lang bumped up and wasn't the same.  Hence the point of listing him, he was a returning finalist who wasn't in the discussion for a title. 



#18 BigTenFanboy

BigTenFanboy

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 5,004 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:10 PM

Zeke Moisey?

#19 hammerlockthree

hammerlockthree

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 3,473 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:21 PM

Murray was a finalist his junior year. The fact that you can't remember solidifies my point!

 

And yes Lang bumped up and wasn't the same.  Hence the point of listing him, he was a returning finalist who wasn't in the discussion for a title. 

 

who beat Murray in the finals?

 

I wasn't the first to make the point, but Cruz is possibly the most heavily dismissed NCAA champ ever



#20 wrestlingnerd

wrestlingnerd

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 7,741 posts

Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:21 PM

Zeke Moisey?


No way. It was after his sophomore slump that the talk stopped but he was always in the conversation the year after his finals appearance. Lizak is basically an afterthought this year. It’s craxy to say this about an NCAA finalist but he might sneak up on us. Save for one or two matches, he looks improved to me, legit cardio being the big difference.

Edited by wrestlingnerd, 09 January 2018 - 04:22 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users