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BigTimeFan

Lee 0-2 next two duals? What then?

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How much did it hurt all-world, greatest recruit for the program ever, Mark Hall when he lost his first match out of redshirt to Alex Meyer? Did his unattached loss to Christian Brucki earlier in the year matter? How about his loss in his last match right before NCAA's, preventing him from ever becoming a 4x Big 10 champion? Last I knew he is still an NCAA champion and nobody has a problem with Cael's decision to pull him last year.

 

Lee could very well lose these matches. Not uncommon for true freshmen to take some lumps early, maybe even more possible considering this one is coming off injury and is still getting back into things. Schlatter, Dake, obviously Hall, plenty of true freshmen national champs took regular season or even post season losses before figuring it all out and peaking for NCAA's. Not predicting Lee wins a title this year, but these next two matches are the definitive proof he will win a title or proof he can't.

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MA_Wrestler I think what you are saying is true and a lot of people believe he will be fine. A lot of people got excited about Lee because he started the season crushing and then teched Russel. People maybe got a little carried away thinking that Lee could never lose.

 

The debate about Lee is really about expectations. The guy is a freak talent. With that snapshot we had earlier in the season it may have appeared that a undefeated true freshman year was not out of the question. Then lee was brought back down to earth. So really if he takes 2 more losses, doesn't win nationals, doesn't place. Will It meet with what was expected of him? Probably not in some or many people's eyes. It will never be fair standard.

 

I think it is silly really. Since Cael we are comparing everyone by their 4 year body of work. Cael was great, no doubt. However you could argue burroughs and askren or others may have been a better wrestler by their senior years. If Lee wins 3 titles in dominant fashion would he be considered great or Not? 2? 1? What if he wins 1 in dominant fashion after losing to fix twice? What is the expectation for Lee?

 

It's more just fun to talk about. Cletus would say that the pressure is too much for Lee, but the kid has wrestled so many huge matches I think he lives for it. Others may say Iowa depends on his success, but really Lee is so dynamic, I think Iowa will be fine and so will Lee. It will be a fun 3 and half years to watch.

Edited by russelscout

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Without inside info, you have no idea of the pressure Lee is going through. The fact that he lost and decided to still go for a title this year says a lot. It would appear that a meaningless regular season loss is not as crushing as Cletus had hoped it would be. I have to believe the decision to be Cut loose was something he had a pretty significant say in.

 

Haha so insecure.        

 

 

He's got Piccininni soon. I'm looking forward to that one. I'm a Picc fan, enjoy watching that stringbean wrestle. Lee's a brute, but Picc is a high placing AA (4th) and has the length advantage. Should be great fun. Wonder if these kids wrestled in HS?

 

 

This is the bout I really want to see Lee win.   I'm OK with a loss to Nato, but  believe the Picc match up really will be the one where members of the fan base point to in assessing where he truly is.    One of my buddies (huge Iowa fan, former Hawk) was so high on Lee and then just absolutely crashed back to earth with the loss, is finally speaking about him, albeit with an entirely different tone .      Lee has got to win there.   He's stirring a lot of emotions in the fan base (Rosie for example) and the pressure that comes off that has to be mounting.    Now the new expectation appears to be for this to be a learning season, one where he grows and adjusts from losses.   I think that's a fair expectation.     Pretty much where i was on him all along.     Not ready to come out and blitz the field but certainly a contender for an AA/round of 12.   I'd like to see a win over Oklahoma State and give the fan base something to feel good about.    I'm not used to Iowa fans lowering the bar to the degree of using the season and losses to get better.  It's usually been about "You dominate.  You compete"   etc.     I think this is a lot healthier.    

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You are aware that Iowa has ten weights right?

 

Yes but I don't see you starting any threads on the other weight classes.   I mostly see you on the Lee topics.   You are aware there's 10 weight classes, aren't you? 

 

Spencer Lee is a great young talent who much of the fan base expected a huge first year out of.    Some less experienced fans were even saying unbeaten 4 timer lol.       There's even been a "free Lee" push, since he's ready to go now.     Skip the red shirt and get him out there immediately. 

 

As a long time fan who's learned to temper expectations on these once in a generation talents that come up every other year it seems, I would have preferred he be allowed to keep the shirt and grow into the weight class, both physically, medically, and especially mentally.    There are those fans who will pretend Lee taking multiple  losses early on is a good thing.     They will ignore just 2 weeks ago they were telling us his fragile psyche needed to be protected from the dangers of the wrestle backs at the Midlands.   

 

At the end of the day, much of the Lee fuss is to do with an insecurity complex brought on by the unrealistic high hopes many had for this young man.    Now he catches much of the vitriol triggered by a disappointing outing at Midlands.    The expected defensive reaction would be to down play potential consecutive losses on the horizon and to dismiss them in advance to actually being a good thing.    If these things are good, everyone should be shooting to lose a few bouts over the next few weeks.  I have to admit, these silly reactions are entertaining, but at the end of the day, you guys are hurting the kid with reinforcing the losses are expected from him.   Not a good thing to take in (if he reads these boards).   

 

Spencer if you're reading along, we got your back win lose or draw.  We wish you the best and we know your best if goon enough to put you in position to win.  Ignore those living vicariously through you and projecting their insecurities.     Best wishes.  

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Did you take a similar stance with Mark hall? I don't remember you being so vocal about it; downplaying his talent and focussing on any weekends you can think of. I don't remember you being all over him for any little loss.

 

Spencer is good enough to win the Ncaa s as a true freshman in a super tough weight class. He goes for it and you play it up as a great mistake for Iowa. I say no, he is capable of winning it, go for it lumps or not.

Edited by russelscout

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ol' Cletus will be squarely in Lee's corner, supporting his efforts for the Hawks as well as (hopefully) the senior level freestyle team down the road. nobody rooted for Brent Metcalf more than ol' Cletus, and I'm sure Lee will get that same kind of support. 

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Did you take a similar stance with Mark hall? I don't remember you being so vocal about it; downplaying his talent and focussing on any weekends you can think of.

 

Nah, we didn't see the same type of dynamic in that case.      Cael isn't trending downward and he is no where near being on the hot seat,.  He doesn't have all his eggs in one basket, so to speak.       Also plenty of us expected Hall to be very good, but perhaps AA good and not an undefeated 4 timer.     The fact Valencia is in the weight class had most viewing him as the class of the division and Hall not expected to win it all.   When he did it was an exciting surprise.  I think most expected him to lose to the Ohio State kid or Valencia.     Losing in red shirt and at Carver Hawkeye arena pretty much had him grounded (the fan base expectation).     I literally have only heard from 1 of my friends from the Hawk fan base since the Bresser loss and I can tell you it's due to a huge let down once the wildly outrageous expectations were crushed.        I can't speak for everyone, but I can tell you those who I know who penciled Lee in as the next great unbeaten wrestler are still smarting from the reality check and are now laying low.      I would love nothing better than for Lee to win his next 2.     I get no pleasure out of seeing Lee's fans humbled and defeated.    

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Big Br

 

ol' Cletus will be squarely in Lee's corner, supporting his efforts for the Hawks as well as (hopefully) the senior level freestyle team down the road. nobody rooted for Brent Metcalf more than ol' Cletus, and I'm sure Lee will get that same kind of support. 

 

 

Big Brent fan here and I am thrilled with his move to Iowa State.   Brent as a Cyclone is still surreal but I am firmly behind him and the rest of the guys over in Ames.   

 

 

I'm still working on accepting Gilman.    I am not entirely sold on him as a person but I do back the USA team in most cases.    It's going to be a process with him.    I need to see more positive character and less BS.    Brent is one of my favorite Hawks and obviously I'm pretty excited about Lee.       

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He’s not that little anymore. He clearly spent a ton of time in the weight room two summers ago.

 

He's absolutely ripped. I've watched him wrestle this year and he's definitely a brute. Cruz is turning guys like they weigh 3 pounds.

 

He seems smaller framed than the other 125 pounders to me. He must be solid as a rock. It kinda shocks me the lack of regard he's being shown...he's a defending champ and wrestles smart/aggressively and he's undefeated (yeah, I know Picc beat him at All Star match).

Edited by TobusRex

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I think it's possible that Spencer Lee goes 0-2 next two weeks losing to Pich and then Nato. I am not saying it's likely, but we can't rule it out. Now let's say that happens, what does that mean for him and for Brands?

A new in season binder emerges.

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