Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
TheRealOne9050

74 kilos in 2020

Recommended Posts

I had a dream last night. It's the 2020 Olympics (or maybe 2019 Worlds? It was unclear) and JB and Chamizo are in the same weightclass. They face each other (not in the finals), JB wins 3-2.

 

Oh, and there's Ramonov, too.

 

Really hope something like this happens for real. That would be awesome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Dake keeps improving JB will not make the team in 2020. Injuries is key here for Dake I think. If he is healthy I think he is the guy. But he could go 189 but I doubt that. JB needs two more Golds to pass Smith. He may get that in 2018 and 2019 but then will not make team in 2020.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dream aside, Chamizo is P4P best wrestler on the planet and I will argue it to the death, that dude is just sooooo comfortable everywhere and always goes big.... I'll always cheer for USA but if Burroughs and Franklin were to grapple and my life was at stake, I'm flying that Italian flag all day, I think he could go up a weight or down and still be the best

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chamizo is probably my favorite wrestler to watch in the world, and a very cool guy in person....but he has an extremely ill-advised style to wrestle against Burroughs, IMO. He leaves his legs wayyy too open.

Not calling Green, Burroughs.... but watch how ineffective his double was at Worlds. I think Frank is currently just on a different level than everyone else in the world.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Edited by spladle08

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, he didn't look as usual.

Meh. Helen just lost as well, need I remind you of Nick Marable? Talk to me when it matters, not when convenient

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Edited by spladle08

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meh. Helen just lost as well, need I remind you of Nick Marable? Talk to me when it matters, not when convenient

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

Of course. I was just stating that he didn't look good as usual. He didn't need to. He will be ready when it matters, I'm sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chamizo is a stud, but there is no basis for calling him the P4P. It's either Snyder or Sadulaev, and everyone else has a long way to go to be in the conversation.

Snyder as far as dominance on the awards stand sure, but the weight is much thinner (talent wise) you can't think that Snyder's skillset would translate at lighter weights, hell I'd think Yazdani is better. Im hoping through some weight changes we get to see Yaz vs Sad, I know Sad is a Tank but as far as overall wrestling I think hes just good at being big. When I say p4p I mean from the lightest to the heaviest that individuals skillset would translate to wins regardless, seems like that would likely come from somebody in the middle.

Again I am from USA, I hope we win every weight every year and cheer for Snyder, Burroughs, hell even Gilman, at every event, dont don't take my appreciation for another countries athlete as a slight against America

 

*note Im not denying either Snyder's or Sads former accomplishments, they're both amazing and between streaks and gold thats awesome, but when I read everyone else has "a long way to go" I read, "they cant be considered better at any moment unless they have equal accolades" which just isnt true.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Edited by spladle08

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing is if these guys got bigger that flash would be gone and guys get less technical and slower and stronger. Chamizo should not be in the conversation unless he goes up and beats Burroughs. If he does that then I will put him in the conversation with Snyder. Yaz and Sad would be for #2-hope that match happens. Sad would horse him like Taylor did in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yaz and Sad would be for #2-hope that match happens. Sad would horse him like Taylor did in my opinion.

I understand what youre saying and I think thats where we differ. I do agree the heavier you get the less overall "wrestling" gets done, like you said Stronger but much slower.... with even less attacks which I dont value as P4P better. Yes I think if you moved Chamizo into a big 200lb body he would lose, but I think the same for Snyder transitioning down or up just 1 weight class. As far as Taylor running over Yaz, it was early in the transition to a new weight, and like Mcgregor vs Diaz, bulking up seems as easy as not cutting weight, but your body takes awhile to get used to that extra muscle. I think current Yaz runs through Sad.

 

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Edited by spladle08

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Snyder has won 3 in a row and he beat Gadisov, Gazyumov and Sad to get those Golds. And he did this while still competing in Folkstyle.

 

Chamizo has gone Gold, Bronze, Gold.

 

I don't see any argument for Chamizo over Snyder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Snyder has won 3 in a row and he beat Gadisov, Gazyumov and Sad to get those Golds. And he did this while still competing in Folkstyle.

 

Chamizo has gone Gold, Bronze, Gold.

 

I don't see any argument for Chamizo over Snyder.

Do you understand I'm saying he possess more skill, just overall wrestling talents, not just hardware, but variety of attacks/defenses? SNYDMAN IS LEGEND, he brings home gold, and im not saying Chamizo finished higher than Snyder at every event he has entered, Im simply saying he is the most overall complete wrestler currently on the scene.

Robert Horry has 7 NBA championship rings, but he's not a more complete player than Lebron.

Fire back with whatever, im checking out of this argument.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Edited by spladle08

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you understand I'm saying he possess more skill, just overall wrestling talents, not just hardware, but variety of attacks/defenses? SNYDMAN IS LEGEND, he brings home gold, and im not saying Chamizo finished higher than Snyder at every event he has entered, Im simply saying he is the most overall complete wrestler currently on the scene.

Robert Horry has 7 NBA championship rings, but he's not a more complete player than Lebron.

Fire back with whatever, im checking out of this argument.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

Lol you just compared a Robert Horry to Snyder. That is a horrible comparison. Basketball is team sport and you can't control what the other players are doing. Wrestling is an individual sport where you are in total control

 

You can think he is a more complete wrestler but that didn't stop him from losing to Asgarov in 2016.

 

He has a wider array of attacks but he still isn't a better P4P guy by any measure. People can argue that Sads has a wider array of attacks than Snyder (He's clearly better on top) but Snyder still beat him head to head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol you just compared a Robert Horry to Snyder. That is a horrible comparison. Basketball is team sport and you can't control what the other players are doing. Wrestling is an individual sport where you are in total control

 

You can think he is a more complete wrestler but that didn't stop him from losing to Asgarov in 2016.

 

He has a wider array of attacks but he still isn't a better P4P guy by any measure. People can argue that Sads has a wider array of attacks than Snyder (He's clearly better on top) but Snyder still beat him head to head.

Yeah and Greg Jones lost to Ralph Everett ...he was up there "p4p" with all of the Champs that year, just had a bad tourney... With Robert Horry I was just trying to illustrate, you cant just throw out medal counts and say "obviously he is the better wrestler"

But we have lots of time left we will see all sorts of fun over the next few years, enjoy. #Cheers

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Snyder as far as dominance on the awards stand sure, but the weight is much thinner (talent wise) you can't think that Snyder's skillset would translate at lighter weights, hell I'd think Yazdani is better. Im hoping through some weight changes we get to see Yaz vs Sad, I know Sad is a Tank but as far as overall wrestling I think hes just good at being big. When I say p4p I mean from the lightest to the heaviest that individuals skillset would translate to wins regardless, seems like that would likely come from somebody in the middle.

Again I am from USA, I hope we win every weight every year and cheer for Snyder, Burroughs, hell even Gilman, at every event, dont don't take my appreciation for another countries athlete as a slight against America

 

*note Im not denying either Snyder's or Sads former accomplishments, they're both amazing and between streaks and gold thats awesome, but when I read everyone else has "a long way to go" I read, "they cant be considered better at any moment unless they have equal accolades" which just isnt true.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Don’t even know where to begin with this...

 

... with the most ridiculous, I guess. Sad is just good at being big?? Is that a serious comment? Do you realize he just went UP 24 lbs and beat everyone except Snyder, whom he took down and led until the final seconds of the match? Apparently, he’s pretty friggin world class at just being small too... Sadulaev is one of the best technicians in the world right now at any weight. He just makes it look so easy that his opponents appear to be a bunch of knuckle dragging plodders. But they’re not.

 

These P4P discussions always get derailed by the guys who think the lightweight or middleweight guy is more skilled than the heavier guy because they move better or can do things with their lighter bodies that the heavier guys can’t. But it cuts both ways. Wrestling bigger guys requires just as much skill, just different skill. I have been vocal about the heavyweight class being soft relative to the other weights, but 86 kg and even 97 kg is full of studs and the same argument cannot hold there. A 150 lb man will always be able to do things with his body that a 220 lb man cannot due to the laws of scaling (physical abilities do not scale linearly with physical size), but the reverse is also true. If you added 60 lbs to Chamizo through gamma ray exposure and he became the Cuban-Italian Hulk, he himself would not be able to do some of the things little Chamizo can do. It’s literally not physically possible. But he’d be able to do things that little Chamizo can’t do, like move a lot more weight and exert a higher degree of force and power and leverage.

 

P4P is therefore necessarily subjective and in many ways a flawed concept. But there’s no denying that right now, Snyder and Sadulaev are the class of the wrestling world. Their resumes, and HOW those resumes were built, are too much of an outlier to seriously consider anyone else.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don’t even know wheee to begin with this...

 

... Their resumes, and HOW those resumes were built, are too much of an outlier to seriously consider anyone else.

Damn you wrestlingnerd, always respect your opinions and im not discounting your approach to this... I do agree the seperation between top 2 at the heavier weights is tremendous and the parity at lighter weights doesnt necessarily mean there is more skill, just different "Bodies" doing different things.

I guess subjectively I like the fact that Chamizo seems to excel in all wrestling positions while keeping himself atop the wrestling world at very compeitive weights top to bottom.

I always appreciate Snyders gastank, low single, spin behind, and push outs.

And as you said Sads all around greatness.

Eye test alone, I just feel like Chamizo seems to have the most control. Albeit a different kind of control.

The argument is not a winnable one, just hope theyre all still competiting by next Olympics, will make for a solid 3 years or entertainment.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Edited by spladle08

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×