Jump to content


Photo

Rate the PSU 149 thru 184


  • Please log in to reply
82 replies to this topic

#1 Joe24

Joe24

    Silver Member

  • Members
  • 1,190 posts

Posted 12 January 2018 - 05:13 PM

Before tonight, I probably had Nolf first, but I understand "take the win."

 

  1. Zain--best control
  2. Nolf--lost a little luster with me tonight
  3. Nickal--most big, but a little sloppy like Nolf
  4. Joseph--very underrated, but may become the best
  5. Hall--does what he does


#2 BigTenFanboy

BigTenFanboy

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 4,680 posts

Posted 12 January 2018 - 05:32 PM

Before tonight, I probably had Nolf first, but I understand "take the win."
 

  • Zain--best control
  • Nolf--lost a little luster with me tonight
  • Nickal--most big, but a little sloppy like Nolf
  • Joseph--very underrated, but may become the best
  • Hall--does what he does

Zain was Zain
Nolf for the first time since his freshman year vs Imar looked vulnerable
Joseph impressed me the most. I anticipated a nail biter and Joseph never really looked like he was in danger. The two takedowns in the first period impressed me more than his inside trip to back in the 3rd.
Hall looked like he was in control, but I don't see this "once in a generation" talent that some see with him.
Nickal looked like he received a belated Christmas gift from the ref. He needs to tighten things up otherwise Martin may have his number.

#3 wrestlingnerd

wrestlingnerd

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 7,614 posts

Posted 12 January 2018 - 05:35 PM

That Hall is 5th best on his team is almost too ridiculous to write, but I agree with you.

 

I've waffled between Zain and Nolf but always settle on Zain because you can't point to a weakness. What's his weakness? That he slaps the head too much? The only guys who come to mind without a real weakness are Kyle Dake and Logan Stieber. (Snyder is a different guy altogether because he's so good from one position that he makes the others totally irrelevant.) Zain is equally elite in all three positions. Elite physical preparation. Makes very few mistakes. Not as flashy as Nolf but has a more sustainable style as you ramp up level of competition. 


Edited by wrestlingnerd, 12 January 2018 - 05:36 PM.


#4 PSUMike

PSUMike

    Silver Member

  • Members
  • 1,213 posts

Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:00 PM

Before tonight, I would have said

 

Zain

Nolf

Nickal

Hall

Cenzo

 

As of right now, I have Cenzo and Bo fighting it out for #3 and it's very close. 



#5 dmm53

dmm53

    Bronze Member

  • Members
  • 252 posts

Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:21 PM

As Aristotle said, "One swallow [meaning "bird"] does not a summer make."  Similarly one match doesn't make a career (or necessarily change a whole lot). 

 

Keep in mind all five were wrestling away after two weeks off.  Michigan is a tough top five team. 

 

Nolf has proven himself beyond a doubt over 2 1/2 years. Retherford over 3 1/2 years.

 

• Retherford has 47 career falls.  Nolf has 41 (and a year to pass him). Nickal has 33. 

• Nolf has a 54% falls rate compared to Nickal's 43.4% and Retherford's 42%. 

• Nolf's career win rate is slightly higher than Retherford's:  97.4% to 97.3% and Nickal's  96.1 %. 

• And where Nolf puts real distance on everyone (except David Taylor at this point, whom he is also likely to pass) is career bonus point percentage:  Nolf is at 90.8%, Nickal at 75% and Retherford at 74.1%.   

•If trends continue, Retherford will likely win three titles; Nolf will likely win three, and Nickal also has the chance at 3.   It's theoretically possible for Hall and Joseph both to get four titles, but that will be a real challenge of course.

• But Retherford will likely finish:  5-1-1-1 whereas Nolf will likely finish 2-1-1-1.  

 

Based on these statistics, I would order (project) the top two as:

 

1. Nolf

2. Retherford

 

After that, I'm less certain who will be third or fourth or fifth:

 

Nickal?

Hall ?

Joseph ?

 

A lot can change of course, but if we are trying to be empirical, the above stats should count for something.  One might also factor in the number of points each has or likely will score at NCAAs, among other metrics. 



#6 dmm53

dmm53

    Bronze Member

  • Members
  • 252 posts

Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:35 PM

Addendum:  Prior to tonight's matches, Nolf had two matches all of last year that were decisions.  A five point win over Kemerer in Carver and a six point win over him at Big Tens.  (Aside: Watch the Big Ten match again, and Nolf clearly had a takedown at the end that would have given him the major.)

 

Last year, Retherford had an overtime win against Sorensen at Carver and a tight 2-1 win over Collica.  

 

Nolf has pinned a two-time NCAA champ (IMar) and lost two one point decisions to him.   Retherford has beaten a four-time champ in OT and lost twice to him by something like 4 points each time. 

 

This is not to take anything away from Retherford, who is a magnificent monster of a wrester and one who wrestled his true freshman year (to take 5th) unlike Nolf.  And, further, Retherford has better freestyle credentials at this point.  Nolf struggled with Pantaleo in a freestyle match until he laced him up and teched him.  

 

But all wrestlers have "bad match-ups" no matter how good they are -- witness Taylor vs. Dake.  Or Askren vs. Pendleton.  Perhaps Pantaleo's style or defensive strength is a pesky nut for Nolf to still crack, whereas Retherford figured it out at 149.   



#7 BigTenFanboy

BigTenFanboy

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 4,680 posts

Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:55 PM

I would love to see Retherford vs Nolf and Joseph vs Hall.

#8 PSUMike

PSUMike

    Silver Member

  • Members
  • 1,213 posts

Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:15 PM

• Retherford has 47 career falls.  Nolf has 41 (and a year to pass him). Nickal has 33. 

• Nolf has a 54% falls rate compared to Nickal's 43.4% and Retherford's 42%. 

 

Zain's numbers are severely skewed by his freshman year when he won a lot of close matches. After his redshirt year, he was a different beast. 


  • pjm46 likes this

#9 dmm53

dmm53

    Bronze Member

  • Members
  • 252 posts

Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:28 PM

Here are the toughest matches for "Murderer's Row" before Big Tens and NCAAs

 

Retherford - Hayes and Sorensen

Nolf - Jordan and Kemmerer 

Joseph - Wanzek, Lewis, Campbell, Marinelli

Hall - Jordan

Nickal - Gravina, Martin, Downey

 

Of these, I only really see Kemerer, Marinelli, Jordan, and Martin as serious challenges.  Sorry PD3.   



#10 de4856

de4856

    Silver Member

  • Members
  • 1,414 posts

Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:35 PM

Well, I know this is a thread about PSU, but as I watched the dual tonight, I couldn't help but think how tough Michigan looked. Seems to me that if they stay healthy and peak at the right time, I think they can a lot of noise at the NCAA's.
  • pish6969 likes this

#11 SetonHallPirate

SetonHallPirate

    Hall of Fame Member

  • Members
  • 10,713 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 01:08 AM

Here's the thing about Nickal...he's not too difficult to get a leg on. It's what he does once the opposing wrestler gets that leg that is scary...the guy can score, and pin, from all three positions.


Building a better Pirate...construction in process.

 

Editor-in-Chief, WrestlingByPirate

Website/Blog: http://wrestlingbypirate.wordpress.com

Twitter: @wrestlingbypir8

Building a smarter wrestling fan


#12 TBar1977

TBar1977

    Hall of Fame Member

  • Members
  • 12,264 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 01:52 AM

Having 5 HAMMERS in the line up. Priceless. 


Penn State - NCAA Champions 7 of the last 8 Years


#13 silver-medal

silver-medal

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 4,334 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 02:21 AM

Didn't someone opine after Vegas that Pantaleo had a style that could present problems for Nolf?  Granted, this is just one match up.  But when Pantaleo is on, his style makes him very tough for anyone.  


  • madcat11 likes this

#14 TBar1977

TBar1977

    Hall of Fame Member

  • Members
  • 12,264 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 02:27 AM

Didn't someone opine after Vegas that Pantaleo had a style that could present problems for Nolf?  Granted, this is just one match up.  But when Pantaleo is on, his style makes him very tough for anyone.  

 

 

Someone did. Keep in mind that Nolf took him down easily in freestyle last summer. Might have just been one tentative match combined with Pantaleo getting that TD and Nold then decides to just ride him out to secure the W. Next match between them tells a lot.


Penn State - NCAA Champions 7 of the last 8 Years


#15 wrestlingnerd

wrestlingnerd

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 7,614 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 03:29 AM

Didn't someone opine after Vegas that Pantaleo had a style that could present problems for Nolf? Granted, this is just one match up. But when Pantaleo is on, his style makes him very tough for anyone.


Gave you props on the PSU/Michigan thread. You mentioned he was the guy with the best shot and all but two or theee guys laughed. You were right. Good eye!
  • silver-medal likes this

#16 silver-medal

silver-medal

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 4,334 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 03:41 AM

Gave you props on the PSU/Michigan thread. You mentioned he was the guy with the best shot and all but two or theee guys laughed. You were right. Good eye!

Thank you.


Edited by silver-medal, 13 January 2018 - 03:42 AM.


#17 jchapman

jchapman

    Silver Member

  • Members
  • 1,510 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 04:35 AM

That Hall is 5th best on his team is almost too ridiculous to write, but I agree with you.
 
I've waffled between Zain and Nolf but always settle on Zain because you can't point to a weakness. What's his weakness? That he slaps the head too much? The only guys who come to mind without a real weakness are Kyle Dake and Logan Stieber. (Snyder is a different guy altogether because he's so good from one position that he makes the others totally irrelevant.) Zain is equally elite in all three positions. Elite physical preparation. Makes very few mistakes. Not as flashy as Nolf but has a more sustainable style as you ramp up level of competition.

What was Cael's weakness?

Record Holder:  Most Escapes in a Season


#18 Plasmodium

Plasmodium

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 4,635 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 04:59 AM

I have the pecking in order in Happy Valley as:

1) Zain Train

2) Mark Hall

3) Jason Nolf

4) Vincenzo Joseph

5) Bo Nickal

 

 

That is a tough bunch of middleweights.



#19 wrestlingnerd

wrestlingnerd

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 7,614 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 05:25 AM

How do you have Hall #2 in folkstyle? Because he's beaten Cenzo and Nolf in freestyle? 



#20 wrestlingnerd

wrestlingnerd

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 7,614 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 05:26 AM

What was Cael's weakness?

 

Fair enough. I wasn't going back that far, but of course, you're right. I just think he was on a Snyder level of superiority so, like Snyder, I don't even count him. I guess if I was going to mention Snyder parenthetically, I should've done the same for Cael. His best position was by far neutral though, so I don't consider him equally good in all three positions like Zain, but yes, in terms of weaknesses, none.


Edited by wrestlingnerd, 13 January 2018 - 05:27 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users