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#1 WrestlingFan89

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 05:18 PM

With the narrative that kids get better by transferring to power programs. At least until there is some data to actually support the claim.

I mean at least there is some proof that you get better by leaving Iowa for SDSU.

#2 MadMardigain

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 03:20 AM

I mean at least there is some proof that you get better by leaving Iowa for SDSU.


There is no more actually proof the improvement occurred due to a move than any other move. Which maybe your point, so there is no need for the SDSU reference. The additional years or training, development, and maturity could be the reason not simply the move to SDSU. Speculation and you may get anecdotal evidence, but it’s hard to prove when by nature most athletes naturally improve each year of development. To many other variables out there to narrow down the improvement to just a room move.
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#3 wrestlingnerd

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 04:40 AM

Let's be honest, Gross wasn't really a transfer. Not to bring up old dirt, but it's totally unjustifiable to use him as an example. He would've stayed at Iowa and Iowa would be in the running for the team title this year, had extracurriculars not intervened. If he's an example, then David Taylor and Andrew Long are two counterexamples.

 

Better recent examples of guys going big to small and improving are Meredith (uncertain role at VT to NCAA finalist at Wyomoing) and Marsteller (not starting to top 10 ranking and looking inarguably better at Lock Haven). 


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#4 SetonHallPirate

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 04:47 AM

Let's be honest, Gross wasn't really a transfer. Not to bring up old dirt, but it's totally unjustifiable to use him as an example. He would've stayed at Iowa and Iowa would be in the running for the team title this year, had extracurriculars not intervened. If he's an example, then David Taylor and Andrew Long are two counterexamples.

 

Better recent examples of guys going big to small and improving are Meredith (uncertain role at NC State to NCAA finalist at Wyomoing) and Marsteller (not starting to top 10 ranking and looking inarguably better at Lock Haven). 

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#5 wrestlingnerd

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 04:48 AM

Brain fart,  thanks.



#6 WrestlingFan89

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 05:17 AM



For what it’s worth, Gross started out at Iowa and is now at SDSU. That technically makes him a transfer. He credits Bono with helping to develop his mindset and credits Schopp with furthering his top game. He would have never been exposed to them had things worked out in Iowa. I am also of the opinion that he was somewhat more disposable to the Brands because they didn’t much care for his wrestling style.

#7 cornercoach

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 06:11 AM

.... & what else is there to do in South Dakota but to stay inside and train..... their spring is a long weekend in June.....



#8 russelscout

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 06:59 AM

I am of the opinion that some kids do better when they are in a leadership role on the team and are better suited for teams where they have an oppurtunity to stand out. Others need to be shown the way and are better suited for an atmosphere as a follower with numerous examples.
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"To feel sorry for him because his dream is going down the drain is ludicrous. I would like nothing more than to see Josh Budke on top of the heap at the end. The thing is he has to earn it. It's not that he deserves it. He doesn't deserve anything. The only thing you deserve is what you earn." -Tom Brands

#9 WrestlingFan89

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 07:20 AM

.... & what else is there to do in South Dakota but to stay inside and train..... their spring is a long weekend in June.....


It’s all the way up to 8 here already today. And I have a 4:15 tee time, indoor golf is 👍

#10 BigTenFanboy

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 07:36 AM

I am of the opinion that some kids do better when they are in a leadership role on the team and are better suited for teams where they have an oppurtunity to stand out. Others need to be shown the way and are better suited for an atmosphere as a follower with numerous examples.


Agreed. Everyone is different and there is no one size fit all that works for everyone.

#11 wrestlingphish

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 08:25 AM

. I am also of the opinion that he was somewhat more disposable to the Brands because they didn’t much care for his wrestling style.


Tom Brands wanted Gross to stay. He laid out the rules and what it would take to come back. Gross chose to leave (and I don’t blame him because I definitely believe in the good a fresh start can do) but he was given the option to stay.

#12 WillieBoy

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 09:51 AM

.... & what else is there to do in South Dakota but to stay inside and train..... their spring is a long weekend in June.....

That's what they want you to think so the State won't have a ton of people moving in.

Mountains, badlands, prairies. Great summers and winters to challenge the hardy. Deadwood and Lead and the Sturgis Motorcycle rally every year. Lots of open space and few people.



#13 wrestlingnerd

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 09:56 AM

That's what they want you to think so the State won't have a ton of people moving in.
Mountains, badlands, prairies. Great summers and winters to challenge the hardy. Deadwood and Lead and the Sturgis Motorcycle rally every year. Lots of open space and few people.


Definitely don’t let that secret out or people will be tripping over each other to get in.

#14 sgallan

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:37 AM

Yup, programs and coaching doesn't matter. What Gable did for example was all just luck. Heck I could have done what he did.

 

Just...... so....... stupid.



#15 WrestlingFan89

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:57 AM

Yup, programs and coaching doesn't matter. What Gable did for example was all just luck. Heck I could have done what he did.

Just...... so....... stupid.


There are coaches other than Sanderson, Ryan, Smith and Brands that are capable of coaching national champions.

Meredith and Gross are very good with limited (talent wise) teammates in weight classes directly above and below.

Give Bono or Branch Penn State or Ohio State’s horses and they’d have them in the same place.

#16 sgallan

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:05 PM

There are coaches other than Sanderson, Ryan, Smith and Brands that are capable of coaching national champions.

Meredith and Gross are very good with limited (talent wise) teammates in weight classes directly above and below.

Give Bono or Branch Penn State or Ohio State’s horses and they’d have them in the same place.

 Exceptions to the rule won't change my mind until you can convince me I am at the same coaching level of Gable. 

 

Just..... so..... dumb.  



#17 russelscout

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:36 PM

How many exceptions do you need before it's not a rule anymore? Also, what exactly is the rule? It cannot be that transferring to a power program makes you significantly better. Where are the recent results to suggest that? Keener, Gomez mckenna?

Edited by russelscout, 13 January 2018 - 12:58 PM.

"To feel sorry for him because his dream is going down the drain is ludicrous. I would like nothing more than to see Josh Budke on top of the heap at the end. The thing is he has to earn it. It's not that he deserves it. He doesn't deserve anything. The only thing you deserve is what you earn." -Tom Brands

#18 WrestlingFan89

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:44 PM

Exceptions to the rule won't change my mind until you can convince me I am at the same coaching level of Gable.

Just..... so..... dumb.


So do you think you are at the same coaching level as Bono or Branch?

#19 LemonPie

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:52 PM

Schopp must be legit. Welch, Thornton, Schroder, and Limmex are all improved.
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Anyone but Heil '18

 

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#20 Idaho

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 02:00 PM

With the narrative that kids get better by transferring to power programs. At least until there is some data to actually support the claim.

I mean at least there is some proof that you get better by leaving Iowa for SDSU.

 

The narrative will continue until you provide data that supports your claim that they do not get better by transferring to power programs. 






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