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MadMardigain

Final X: New World Team Trials setup.

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So that other platform folded? FLO outbid them? Sounds good to me

I thought Flo had a contract with USA Wrestling to show trial events that went way past the next cycle Olympic cycle. NBC may have rights to also show Olympic qualifier stuff as part of their Olympic deal but it may not be the live coverage. NBC could care less about nine Olympic years so likely didn’t put in much of a bid if they knew they could still use the Olympic Trial footage at some point later. Edited by MadMardigain

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This new system sounds overly complicated and unintuitive. Why not simplify and run the trials as a single tournament in one weekend, with the returning medalists getting a bye to the quarterfinals or something? That's a lot more conclusive and much easier for fans to understand. Plus, we want world team reps who can handle the rigors of a UWW-paced tournament, not a best 2 out of 3 finals match.

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All are good suggestions.  I don't think the WTT's will be 2 of 3 because they never have been except for the final.  That is now the Final X.  So the WTT challenge tourney will be a winner by a single match final, like it always has been.  I may have that wrong but that is how it has worked in the past.  Winner of the challenge goes on to the best 2 of 3 with the US national champ. 

 

My input is that the Final X be done on the same weekend as WTT challenge tourney.  If that cannot be done, do the Final X on one day at some future time, but not on 3 separate weekends.  Apparently the market research did not reach most of us on this thread, or there might have been a different format chosen.

 

mspart

Edited by mspart

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Yep, that is what I'm thinking.  Once in the semi's you could lose, and then default the rest and make it WTT's with less wear and tear on your body.  That is how the US nationals was orchestrated some years ago.  First day was a tourney to place the bottom 8 (I think).  The semi's were not contested and the last 4 in consis didn't contest.  They just went to the next day's bracket.  I think I have that right.  Maybe they should do this for weights with a medallist for less wear and tear.  This setup leads to all kinds of issues in my opinion that are kind of messy.

 

mspart

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Check out Jason Bryant’s interview with Rich Bender on his podcast. Sold me on the idea here. Admittedly, not good for the traveling fan but most come from local areas and they will put the events in wrestling hotbeds.

 

One result of this format will be a lot of press and a lot of discussion over several weeks. I can see this and look forward to it.

 

Other tidbits

— Cox definitely to 92. No pass to finals.

— WTT challenge tourney finals are best of 3

— more money to the athletes

— I think Rich said that after 72 hours, USA wrestling can distribute the video. So FLO has live rights but the vid will be available soon after (I think).

 

I do like that the challenge athletes get a break to recover. And they both get to game plan.

 

I’m on board. I like it. I just won’t travel — will watch on flo.

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If a weight has a returning medalist, is there any benefit to winning the US Open?

 

I’m thinking it just qualifies you for WTT and perhaps helps your seeding there. Correct?

 

 

From the document:

 

"If there is a 2017 Senior Men's Freestyle World Championship medalist at the weight being contested, the Open Champion will advance to the Challenge tournament Wrestle-Off."

 

So no, there is still a huge advantage to winning the US Open, even if it is not quite as big as at non-medalist weights.

Edited by rpm002

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My opinion....

 

Pros:

 

1. In the Final X events, both wrestlers will be rested and have had a chance to prepare for a specific opponent.

2. (Apparently) more money will be earned by the wrestlers.

 

Cons:

 

1. Still have 2 major events (US Open and WTT Challenge tourney) without returning world medal winners.  Thus, there will only be state side event in which all are top guys compete.  Should be 2.

2. All Final X events should be same day.  Spreading over multiple days waters down each event and will discourage interest.

3. The powers at be made no effort to solicit feedback from fans on the format  

4. Worlds will be a 2 day event (weigh-in).  Only the US open will be (I believe).  The other two will not.  

 

Joke:

 

1. No Last Chance or Wildcard invites for the Challenge tourney.  Decision is clearly targeted at one person.  I assure you if JB, KS, etc suffered some sort of injury (or whatever) that caused them to miss so much time that they could not qualify for the Challenge tourney via typical means, USAW would still extend them an invitation to compete (as they should).   This can still be fixed, but it won't.  There should be lawyers.

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Joke:

 

1. No Last Chance or Wildcard invites for the Challenge tourney.  Decision is clearly targeted at one person.  I assure you if JB, KS, etc suffered some sort of injury (or whatever) that caused them to miss so much time that they could not qualify for the Challenge tourney via typical means, USAW would still extend them an invitation to compete (as they should).   This can still be fixed, but it won't.  There should be lawyers.

 

Listen to Rich explain the situation on the show. JB, KS have World and Olympic medals and have made teams. In the past, past World and Olympic team members could compete in the World Team Trials (I don't believe that was the case for the 2016 Olympic Trials, though) and Rich made that clear if an athlete who'd made a past team needed a wildcard, there were stipulations they could. So you're assuring us of something that Rich explained already. 

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Check out Jason Bryant’s interview with Rich Bender on his podcast. Sold me on the idea here. Admittedly, not good for the traveling fan but most come from local areas and they will put the events in wrestling hotbeds.

 

One result of this format will be a lot of press and a lot of discussion over several weeks. I can see this and look forward to it.

 

Other tidbits

— Cox definitely to 92. No pass to finals.

— WTT challenge tourney finals are best of 3

— more money to the athletes

— I think Rich said that after 72 hours, USA wrestling can distribute the video. So FLO has live rights but the vid will be available soon after (I think).

 

I do like that the challenge athletes get a break to recover. And they both get to game plan.

 

I’m on board. I like it. I just won’t travel — will watch on flo.

 

Thanks for the clarification Nom.   It just wasn't clear.  Best 2 of 3 in the WTT finals is ok, I guess.  But at least that is clear now.  And the fact that the US Open champion will go straight to the best 2 of 3 in the WTT finals is also something that makes winning that tourney desireable even though there is a medalist more clear.   I still don't like the format but this makes it more palatable from a competitor's viewpoint.  I'll have to wait for USAW to release the matches.  Won't give Flo money for lousy bandwidth and much frustration.  I do like the fact that there will be rest for the participants of Final X.  But where in all of wrestling do you have the opportunity to train for a specific opponent for a period of time?  Just asking. 

 

mspart

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Listen to Rich explain the situation on the show. JB, KS have World and Olympic medals and have made teams. In the past, past World and Olympic team members could compete in the World Team Trials (I don't believe that was the case for the 2016 Olympic Trials, though) and Rich made that clear if an athlete who'd made a past team needed a wildcard, there were stipulations they could. So you're assuring us of something that Rich explained already. 

 

I didn't hear that.  Thanks for that info.  It actually makes my point stronger. 

 

Rich confirms they have the power to grant a wildcard and are choosing not to in JO's case.  The criteria of being a former World Team member is USA's wrestling's choice.  I don't think anyone would legitimately argue that JO would not be one of the favorites to make the team at 65KG this year, if he was allowed to compete.  Other than having a bone to pick with a specific athlete(s), I see no reason why USAW would not want all the top guys (who are not suspended -- which JO won't be come May) to be at the challenge tourney.

Edited by Angry_Fish

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Actually, you've misinterpreted it. They don't have the arbitrary power to add people, they have to hit certain benchmarks to quality for said wildcards or injury exemptions. There's precedent there. I'm sure there will be lawyers. Being a favorite isn't the issue - it sucks for Jordan, but he's never made a World or Olympic team. What Rich is saying is only those types of athletes would be granted that type of injury type of wildcard. 

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Actually, you've misinterpreted it. They don't have the arbitrary power to add people, they have to hit certain benchmarks to quality for said wildcards or injury exemptions. There's precedent there. I'm sure there will be lawyers. Being a favorite isn't the issue - it sucks for Jordan, but he's never made a World or Olympic team. What Rich is saying is only those types of athletes would be granted that type of injury type of wildcard. 

 

I find it very hard to believe that it is not within USAW's authority to grant a wildcard to whoever they wish.  They are the governing power -- they surely have that ability.  

 

And they most certainly could have a Last Chance tourney if they wanted (and have for years).

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I haven't gotten the chance to listen to the podcast yet. Is PROWL involved with this, or did that fall through?

 

Fell through for lack of a better explanation. Some parties are claiming that this (final x) is why it didnt happen. 

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This sounds idiotic.  Do they really think people are going to travel to all 3 or is this Flo's idea because they want to charge 3x as much as they normally would for one event?  

 

I'm pretty sure they're betting that people won't travel, and that you might have to pay for two months of subscription, which isn't much different than subscribing for the US open and WTT in the past. 

 

The best arguments against this are either about traveling fans, which I'm guessing affects a couple thousand people, or compromising the system that gave us our 2017 team, which is weakened by the sample being the year after the olympics. Pamela made a great point about promoting the athletes who succeed on the intensive 1day tourney, though. 

 

It's actually fan friendly for those of us who weren't going to travel - we get several events to tune into. 

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Just got caught up on all of the details. As a production, this looks ridiculous. "Final X" sounds like a late 90's extreme sports show on ESPN or a Netflix horror film. USA Wrestling please stop partnering with Flo. You are missing out on long term money and growth of the sport for the sake of low six figure contracts. it is 2018, no one likes Flo or the headache that comes with trying to watch their events. Many people (including myself) are fed up and have moved on from FloPro. Get this on a real network where people can actually watch it. 

Edited by superbowlhomeboy

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No one likes Flo? Despite their frequent shortcomings, Flo is one of the best things to happen to the sport. Ever. 

 

How come every time Flo does an event a "support" post pops up on here of people complaining about the feed? People respond in these posts saying "mine is working fine" as though they are simultaneously surprised and proud. It reminds me of that Chris Rock joke where he talks about people bragging "I take care of my kids." It's not supposed to be a shocker, it is supposed to be the expectation, every time. 

 

I think people wrongly associate FloWrestling with the increased availability of wrestling content online, when the truth is that everything is more readily available on the internet than it was ten years ago. This is a result of things like social media, camera phones, and the ease at which things can be live streamed, more than anything that Flo is doing. 

 

Those of you that defend Flo, have you ever looked at all of the sports content that is available on the ESPN app? Chances are, you already have access to it and so do hundreds of millions worldwide. Last year, after many failed events on phones, tablets, and Apple TV's, I decided to not renew FloPro. Thankfully, the ACC and MAC have contracts with ESPN and I am able to watch all of their events live and without issue. You think if Flo wasn't bidding on meets ESPN wouldn't be picking them up? You're nuts. If ESPN will broadcast Kent St. vs. Ohio, I'm sure they'd be happy to pick up the stuff that is on Flo. 

 

I'll say the same thing I've said before, we've got to get wrestling off of these small scale pay-per-view events and on to ESPN or NBC sports where regular people can see it. If you want to be taken seriously, why marginalize yourself? 

Edited by superbowlhomeboy

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