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BigTenFanboy

Cruz vs Lee.. what would it look like?

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I think Lee is damn hard to take down. It’s true NaTo got to his leg a few times pretty easily but he struggled to take him down. I wonder if his knee brace or general hesitation is hurting his offense in neutral. Whatever the case I am going to take Lee by a the thinnest of margins.

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I've got Cruz. He's been dominating people this year except for that semi-flukish loss to Picc at the All-Star match. He's good in all positions and aggressively works for turns when on top, and damn near impossible to ride out because he's so quick/strong. Lee's great on the mat, really tough to take down, but his offense is lacking against the top guys (so far, at least).

 

Can't rule out a guy with Lee's talent completely. I got Cruz, 6-3.

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I think Lee is damn hard to take down. It’s true NaTo got to his leg a few times pretty easily but he struggled to take him down. I wonder if his knee brace or general hesitation is hurting his offense in neutral. Whatever the case I am going to take Lee by a the thinnest of margins.

 

He looks like a real handful to get down. Superb mat awareness, incredible balance, and he's got to be strong as hell. If he can get his offense rolling he'll be nearly unstoppable.

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See, now that so many people are leaning Cruz it makes me want to pick Lee, lol. 

 

I still have Cruz in a tight one. Again, I would also take NaTo in a tight one next time. 

 

I think Fausz could be a tough out for Lee as well, with his size and style. Id take Lee in that one, but I think it would be closer than a lot would consider. 

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I've got Cruz. He's been dominating people this year except for that semi-flukish loss to Picc at the All-Star match. He's good in all positions and aggressively works for turns when on top, and damn near impossible to ride out because he's so quick/strong. Lee's great on the mat, really tough to take down, but his offense is lacking against the top guys (so far, at least).

 

Can't rule out a guy with Lee's talent completely. I got Cruz, 6-3.

Your point about the All Star, I tend to discount those matches as well. Early season without officially has a lot of variables that are hard to account for. So I ignore Cruz’ loss. Perhaps I’m underestimating Cruz but I just feel Lee is better than all of them. I think a far less than 100% guy who beats Nato at a home match is the better guy.

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The March Tourney brings out the best in wrestlers (generally).  Upsets galore, peaking at right time, new beginnings for the true/RS frosh, meteoric descents for 4th/5th year seniors that contract HEW.  Lots of things can happen. 

 

The parity between Lee, Cruz, NaTo, Suriano is striking.  ANY of these four can beat the others, and vice versa.  

 

125 is going to be a fun one to watch, but I'm thinking it's NaTo over Suriano for all the glory, with Lee over Cruz for 3rd.

 

After this year, Lee and Fix will be the headlining pair, while Suriano... maybe he should move to 133. 

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Your point about the All Star, I tend to discount those matches as well. Early season without officially has a lot of variables that are hard to account for. So I ignore Cruz’ loss. Perhaps I’m underestimating Cruz but I just feel Lee is better than all of them. I think a far less than 100% guy who beats Nato at a home match is the better guy.

Not sure why anyone would discount the results of the All Star matches. Granted that it is early in the season, but that applies to all 20 wrestlers. Additionally, without a doubt, every wrestler there is trying their hardest to win. I can't imagine any top wrestler agreeing to compete in the All Star match, taking the time and trouble to fly there, and then giving it a half hearted effort because the NCAA "doesn't count" these matches.

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Not sure why anyone would discount the results of the All Star matches. Granted that it is early in the season, but that applies to all 20 wrestlers. Additionally, without a doubt, every wrestler there is trying their hardest to win. I can't imagine any top wrestler agreeing to compete in the All Star match, taking the time and trouble to fly there, and then giving it a half hearted effort because the NCAA "doesn't count" these matches.

The reason I said it is because it's so early in the season and it doesn't count on their official records. Now it's easy enough to say that "none of these guys want to lose" and therefore they are still going to try hard, but to me it's halfway between spring and summer freestyle where we know results are often at odds with in-season ones - some people train more, care more, etc - and NCAAs. Plus it's so early in the season I suspect that some people are more tuned up than others. 

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Not sure why anyone would discount the results of the All Star matches. Granted that it is early in the season, but that applies to all 20 wrestlers. Additionally, without a doubt, every wrestler there is trying their hardest to win. I can't imagine any top wrestler agreeing to compete in the All Star match, taking the time and trouble to fly there, and then giving it a half hearted effort because the NCAA "doesn't count" these matches.

 

Is it a far fetched possibility to conclude that some wrestlers, at that level, also understand that their season is a grind, and:

* If they are already down, pushing the extra bit to try to pull out the win could cause injury, thus hurting their season, so they don't?

* they may not want to telegraph their full capability set, and leave a surprise or two in their arsenal for when it matters (i.e. CKLV, Scuffle, League Championship, Nationals, etc.)

* the trip is free, they're already top tier, even getting pinned wouldn't change that, except for fan "perception", so the "who cares" attitude does enter into the equation

 

The point is, there are a lot of variables and possible explanations as to why a top 5 wrestler, competing in this event, may not go 100% at that point in the season.  Some, like Snyder, clearly have a different mindset.

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Is it a far fetched possibility to conclude that some wrestlers, at that level, also understand that their season is a grind, and:

* If they are already down, pushing the extra bit to try to pull out the win could cause injury, thus hurting their season, so they don't?

* they may not want to telegraph their full capability set, and leave a surprise or two in their arsenal for when it matters (i.e. CKLV, Scuffle, League Championship, Nationals, etc.)

* the trip is free, they're already top tier, even getting pinned wouldn't change that, except for fan "perception", so the "who cares" attitude does enter into the equation

 

The point is, there are a lot of variables and possible explanations as to why a top 5 wrestler, competing in this event, may not go 100% at that point in the season.  Some, like Snyder, clearly have a different mindset.

 

Can you think of a match in which the All-Star outcome differed from a later "match that counted"?  Off the top of my head, Dake edged Taylor and edged him at NCAAs; Dean pounded Martin and pounded him again in the dual meet.

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Can you think of a match in which the All-Star outcome differed from a later "match that counted"? Off the top of my head, Dake edged Taylor and edged him at NCAAs; Dean pounded Martin and pounded him again in the dual meet.

Perhaps the most famous of all time: Darrion Caldwell got abused (TF?) by Metcalf at the All-Star and returned the favor at then NCAA finals.

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