Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Fletcher

The Injury Excuse

Recommended Posts

Can we all have a gentleman's agreement on this board to stop using injuries as an excuse when someone loses?

 

Reasons:

 

1. They're all wrestling injured by the time the NCAA tournament rolls around, it's all just a matter of degree.

 

2. Injuries often can be avoided thru training, conditioning, stretching, etc. Avoiding injuries is part of a wrestler's skill set, just like a good double leg TD (I recognize this is a generalization and some injuries are unavoidable). Same goes for recouperation from injury. Proper physical therapy, diet, and all other recovery factors are part of the discipline required to be a good wrestler. This doesn't apply to all injuries, but does apply to many.

 

3. It's an easy catch-all excuse for losing. When you say wrestler X only lost because he was injured, it's impossible for anyone to prove you wrong. It's like my wife saying she would beat me at Words with Friends if she had the time to waste to come up with high-scoring words.

 

This is not to say that wrestlers do not lose matches due to injury - they do. It's just that it's pointless for us to argue over the extent of those injuries and their impact on performance because those factors will always be unknowable to us.

 

The more sensible approach is to assume that everyone who steps on the mat is giving it 100% and whoever wins is the better wrestler. Anything else is just speculation.

 

Agreed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You can't say that wrestlers sometimes lose matches due to prior injury in one paragraph and then in the next advocate for saying the best guy always wins. Your two statements are mutually exclusive.

 

 

Not what I was saying.

 

Take the Dake/DSJ match for example. Iowa faithful have been going on about how DSJ was injured most of the year and the finals match woould have been different if he hadn't been. The truth is we don't know What DSJ's health status was - he could have been 100%, 50%, or for all we know, Dake could have been hurt and just gutted it out. Maybe DSJ didn't get a good night sleep the night before the match. Maybe his girlfriend broke up with him or his dog died. There's a million factors that affect the outcome of a match and injuries are only one of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm Iowa faithful and I've posted a hundred times that st. John was most certainly hurt and regardless he would have lost. I've also said in 100% condition I expect dsj to finish second again. What Iowa faithful are you running your mouth about? I'll say it again, a hurt dsj still beat Alton twice, beat welch twice, beat James green, and smoked Pena. Hurt or unhurt he doesn't beat dake. I've posted this all multiple times, I take offense to your example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "injury excuse" can be legit. Some examples are 100% legit and should not be referred to as excuses.

Troy Letters neck injury obviously effected his performance in his senior year NCAA . Randy Lewis dislocated elbow played a major role in his 7th (?) place finish. Troy Nickerson had shoulder problems which obviously hampered his performance.

Some injuries are legit, some are just bumps and bruises. When you are forced to change your style or have to think about weather you should do a move because you may aggrivate or re-injure instead of just seeing an opening and reacting...then the injury definitely would be an excuse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "injury excuse" is not a generalization. It is circumstancial. There are times when it is used as an excuse and there are times when it is used as an explanation. Major difference between the two.

 

 

I've seen both. There are times when someone gets beat because the other wrestler was the better wrestler that day, and they or moreso their fans just can't accept it. So excuses are made about not feeling good and/or having certain aches and pains that caused a loss in what otherwise would have been a win.

 

Other times, injuries are WHY certain athletes under perform. They aren't excuses, but reasons as to why certain wrestlers don't wrestle up to expectation. Roger Kish his senior season after placing 2nd and 3rd the two previous years, lost in the R12 match. I am making an excuse for him? No, but you know as well as I do that a healthy Roger Kish, wrestling with all of his strength would have beaten Kirk Smith in that match. Instead he went out with no strength or ability to use his arm and lost. Is that an excuse? No, it's a reason.

 

Same with Mike Pucillo a few years back. He was 6-1-2-R12. He under performed because of injuries.

 

So while I do agree that sometimes their are guys that use injury as an excuse for as to why they lost, there are others who use it legitly.

 

Excuses for wrestlers, I won't use. Explanations and reasons, I will. It's only fair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The "injury excuse" can be legit. Some examples are 100% legit and should not be referred to as excuses.

Troy Letters neck injury obviously effected his performance in his senior year NCAA . Randy Lewis dislocated elbow played a major role in his 7th (?) place finish. Troy Nickerson had shoulder problems which obviously hampered his performance.

Some injuries are legit, some are just bumps and bruises. When you are forced to change your style or have to think about weather you should do a move because you may aggrivate or re-injure instead of just seeing an opening and reacting...then the injury definitely would be an excuse.

 

I agree with Nickerson and Letters. Another one is Mike Grey his senior year. He basically had a peg leg and still managed to be an all-american. He couldn't move like he needed to against Oliver, he got pinned by Long (the only time in college he was pinned and it happens on his last day of wrestling) and he lost to Graff who he has beaten before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike Pucillo made the national semis as a frosh, won it as a soph (over Olympian Varner), took 2nd as a junior (to Olympian Herbert) and then failed to place as a senior. The reason? He was wrestling with one arm.

 

That's not an excuse. It's an explanation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm also not buying this "it's not an excuse, but it's an explanation" line. As the politicians say - that's a distinction without a difference.

 

Call it whatever you want - you're saying, but for the injury, wrestler X may not have lost to wrestler Y.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there is no possibility of agreeing on the impact of injury on wrestling.

The sport is so physical that injuries are common and everyone is going to get hurt at some point.

 

Do some make the most out of them? Yes.

Do some lose to opponents because of injury, absolutely.

 

The point that some careers are impressive is absolutely on the mark. When interviewed after his final match Cael responded with the term "lucky" and he was. He was the greatest collegian ever but blessed not to get tweaked at the wrong time.

 

Watching Troy Nickerson in HS will 5 NYS titles, I always said that his ability was amazing but his ability to stay relatively healthy was even more amazing, something he wasn't able to avoid at the DI level. He wrestled plenty of matches a little hurt in HS but was able to get through them. Beating the Angel Escobedo's of the world with one arm are tall tasks but on the same level losing to Santaite his senior year is something I think he would point to injury on.

 

The list of the affected injured is long and distinguished.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm also not buying this "it's not an excuse, but it's an explanation" line. As the politicians say - that's a distinction without a difference.

 

Call it whatever you want - you're saying, but for the injury, wrestler X may not have lost to wrestler Y.

There are numerous wrestlers year in and year out that achieve very high credentials the year before, severely hurt their knee, shoulder, arm, hand, ect and the next year don't wrestle anywhere near as well as they did the year before. Is it because they regressed? Is it because they were good and now they're not? No, it's not. I don't buy that at all. Their performance is as a result of their injury.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2. Injuries often can be avoided thru training, conditioning, stretching, etc. Avoiding injuries is part of a wrestler's skill set, just like a good double leg TD (I recognize this is a generalization and some injuries are unavoidable). Same goes for recouperation from injury. Proper physical therapy, diet, and all other recovery factors are part of the discipline required to be a good wrestler. This doesn't apply to all injuries, but does apply to many.

 

Ahahahah. You think DSJ, or Pucillo, or Nickerson, or Mike Grey, or anybody else who wrestles at a high D1 level who happens to suffer an injury, doesn't have the discipline to "train, condition, stretch" or "go to physical therapy" or "eat the right diet"? Many, MANY times, injuries are unavoidable. It's the nature of the sport. It happens. Sometimes you land the wrong way. Stretching and conditioning aren't gonna change anything if you land on your arm and fracture your wrist, or if your opponent lands on your leg and you tear your ACL.

 

To state that the cause of many injuries in the D1 wrestling world are due to a wrestler's lack of discipline to go to physical therapy, diet right, stretch, and train is not only laughable but offensive. I'm pretty sure that wrestler's at the top D1 level do all of this, and still injuries are often times inevitable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"You think DSJ, or Pucillo, or Nickerson, or Mike Grey, or anybody else who wrestles at a high D1 level who happens to suffer an injury, doesn't have the discipline to "train, condition, stretch" or "go to physical therapy" or "eat the right diet"?"

 

I'm sure they all do a great job of this - it's just that among the elite, some do it better than others. If I say that Jordan Burroughs is quicker than Andrew Howe, it doesn't mean that I think Howe is slow.

 

"To state that the cause of many injuries in the D1 wrestling world are due to a wrestler's lack of discipline to go to physical therapy, diet right, stretch, and train is not only laughable but offensive."

 

Managing injuries requires a mentality that runs contrary to the instincts of elite athletes. It requires rest, restraint, and moderation. I think many elite athletes have trouble properly recovering from injuries precisely because of their strong work ethic.

 

"I'm pretty sure that wrestler's at the top D1 level do all of this, and still injuries are often times inevitable."

 

Agreed that injuries are often times inevitable. They're part of the sport. That's why they shouldn't be used as an excuse/explanation for losing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not everyone is creating equal with regard to susceptibility to injury. Genetics is as much or more to blame than anything else. The greatest wrestlers seem to have the genetic thing in their favor amongst the various other tools at their disposal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The next guy who tries to claim that his repeated concussions are the reason why he had to default, or couldn't execute anything on the mat, deserves to be rapped in the head, told to suck it up, and stop blaming others for his shortcomings!

 

Derned unwarranted excuses! :evil:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm also not buying this "it's not an excuse, but it's an explanation" line. As the politicians say - that's a distinction without a difference.

 

Call it whatever you want - you're saying, but for the injury, wrestler X may not have lost to wrestler Y.

 

 

A good percentage of such discussion might revolve around making predictions and/or setting odds. It's a poor odds-maker who doesn't take injuries into account when explaining past performance or when forecasting.

 

Discussion of injuries are perfectly appropriate and will be up to participants to judge on a case-by-case basis their worth.

 

NO gentleman's agreement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...