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takedownartist

Updated Rules Needed for Torqued Knee in Neutral?

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It is a good start with awarding back points while the leg passers are wrong side down...sorry Heil.

But I have noticed youth and HS kids are starting to being taught to over torque the knee if they can't score from spaghetti positions, exactly where ankle grabbers tend to always end up shortly before stalemate. They have the attitude if it inflicts enough pain, he will let go and give up a TD.

I have seen this often at practices where it makes even less sense.

Knees and shoulder injuries are the bane of wrestling.

 

Refs do a great job of calling PD on armbars for the most part.

Are refs looking that hard to award control that knees get popped before they see over torque?

Edited by takedownartist

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The problem is that a torqued knee doesn't provide as much feedback to the defensive wrestler as say, an armbar.  They might feel some tension but no real pain until it pops.  So guys either don't recognize or outright ignore the danger to their knee until there is a pop and it is too late. 

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It is a good start with awarding back points while the leg passers are wrong side down...sorry Heil.

But I have noticed youth and HS kids are starting to being taught to over torque the knee if they can't score from spaghetti positions, exactly where ankle grabbers tend to always end up shortly before stalemate. They have the attitude if it inflicts enough pain, he will let go and give up a TD.

I have seen this often at practices where it makes even less sense.

Knees and shoulder injuries are the bane of wrestling.

 

Refs do a great job of calling PD on armbars for the most part.

Are refs looking that hard to award control that knees get popped before they see over torque?

So the bow and arrow should be PD and all arm bars since they inflict pain to the defensive wrestler until they give way for the offensive wrestler to improve his position? Isn’t that the same as the over torqued knee? I’m all for the safety of the wrestlers and hate seeing anyone get hurt. I do not think any rule changes need to be in place now that aren’t already there. If there were rules that prevent any torque on any joints, what would be left in wrestling? Refs, in general, do a good job protecting kids and you do see plenty of stalemates or PDs called.

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So the bow and arrow should be PD and all arm bars since they inflict pain to the defensive wrestler until they give way for the offensive wrestler to improve his position? Isn’t that the same as the over torqued knee? I’m all for the safety of the wrestlers and hate seeing anyone get hurt. I do not think any rule changes need to be in place now that aren’t already there. If there were rules that prevent any torque on any joints, what would be left in wrestling? Refs, in general, do a good job protecting kids and you do see plenty of stalemates or PDs called.

Arm Bars and Bow and Arrows have been around longer than most people alive today.  Generations of refs know instantly Bow and Arrow are all good and legal in freestyle and some age groups in Folk style.  They also run closer to any arm bars and yell "Keep it legal" and almost always call PD in time.

 

I love wrestlers inflicting legal pain. I don't love seeing knees blown out and ending seasons. And No refs do not do a good job in knee torque situations. They look if control has been established and studs do not cry out in pain. They are taught to tough it out. I know....tell them to rub dirt on it. It will be fine.

Edited by takedownartist

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We do not ( and did not) need any new rules for potential dangerous or stalling.  We just need educated refs with the balls to make the call and not worry about the fan base or the coaches.   Their #1  priority needs to be with the safety of the wrestlers,  then worry about points.

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How is the bow and arrow technique that Zane is using even legal? The refs invariably are spending their time looking for the turn instead of watching to see if the knee is being wrenched sideways - which is often is. There is way too much leeway given to how the knee is torqued in that position.

 

everything about this post is horrendously incorrect. 

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How is the bow and arrow technique that Zane is using even legal? The refs invariably are spending their time looking for the turn instead of watching to see if the knee is being wrenched sideways - which is often is. There is way too much leeway given to how the knee is torqued in that position.

This top technique is perfectly legal in college.

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This top technique is perfectly legal in college.

If we are talking about eliminating grabbing a foot or ankle and applying side pressure it should not be legal whether it's happening in neutral or on top. You can't draw some arbitrary line and say that you can't grab and ankle/foot in a scramble because it potentially dangerous but then allow it in other positions.

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How is the bow and arrow technique that Zane is using even legal? The refs invariably are spending their time looking for the turn instead of watching to see if the knee is being wrenched sideways - which is often is. There is way too much leeway given to how the knee is torqued in that position.

It isn't legal in high school.

 

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If we are talking about eliminating grabbing a foot or ankle and applying side pressure it should not be legal whether it's happening in neutral or on top. You can't draw some arbitrary line and say that you can't grab and ankle/foot in a scramble because it potentially dangerous but then allow it in other positions.

You can bail out on getting injured while in bow and arrow by letting your hip turn...can't bail out when knee is torqued in neutral sometimes when you are in spaghetti position if blocked.

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If we are talking about eliminating grabbing a foot or ankle and applying side pressure it should not be legal whether it's happening in neutral or on top. You can't draw some arbitrary line and say that you can't grab and ankle/foot in a scramble because it potentially dangerous but then allow it in other positions.

 

Again you are ignorant of so many core concepts to wrestling/anatomy that I don't know where to start.

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You can bail out on getting injured while in bow and arrow by letting your hip turn...can't bail out when knee is torqued in neutral sometimes when you are in spaghetti position if blocked.

That's not even partially correct. There is a crossface or claw being applied at the same time the foot is being torqued so bailing out is not an option. Most of the time Zane (and others) are applying it they are grabbing the foot and more specifically the toe area and torquing it over at the same time they have a claw in. It a miracle that there aren't more pulled quads from that move. No wonder they ban it at the HS level. It's the definition of a submission move

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That's not even partially correct. There is a crossface or claw being applied at the same time the foot is being torqued so bailing out is not an option. Most of the time Zane (and others) are applying it they are grabbing the foot and more specifically the toe area and torquing it over at the same time they have a claw in. It a miracle that there aren't more pulled quads from that move. No wonder they ban it at the HS level. It's the definition of a submission move

 

Pulled quad? Let's just agree to disagree sir.

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