Jump to content


Photo

Hodge update


  • Please log in to reply
155 replies to this topic

#41 maolsen

maolsen

    Bronze Member

  • Members
  • 427 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:26 AM

Better. With that said Synder wrestling 285 also enables him to wrestle lesser athletes in terms of precision and coordination. I would be willing to bet that if their was a 225lbs weight class, it would be a better more competitive weight than 285.

If there was a 225 weight you would take away any advantage wrestlers have on Snyder, so matches like yesterday likely would not happen. It might be more competitive as a whole, but Snyder would run thru that weight even easier.

#42 TBar1977

TBar1977

    Hall of Fame Member

  • Members
  • 11,604 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:28 AM

No not for hodge criteria.

But in terms of P4P rankings in the hearts and minds.... Absolutely.

 

 

Pretty much agree on hearts and minds, not sure about P4P. If a middleweight is #1 in most dominant by virtue of pinning tons of guys while the 113lbs wrestler is #5 in most dominant then while everyone will love the little guy the middleweight is probably the better wrestler when compared to his peers because he is doing the most when measured against the objective to score the most points. 


I have set aside funds to have six Green Bay Packers be my pall bearers, that way they can let me down one final time. 


#43 sgallan

sgallan

    Hall of Fame Member

  • Members
  • 29,466 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:30 AM

Saying any American without the initials JB is anywhere near Snyder's league speaks to the utter stupidity of 'some' American folkstyle fans. It is embarrassing.


  • Billyhoyle likes this

#44 madcat11

madcat11

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 3,181 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:32 AM

Better but still not close. More like Zahid Valencia vs McCutcheon. With that said Synder wrestling 285 also enables him to wrestle lesser athletes in terms of precision and coordination. I would be willing to bet that if their was a 225lbs weight class, it would be a better more competitive weight than 285.

So basically add in the larger 197s, but now they’re giving up weight to snyder.

#45 BigTenFanboy

BigTenFanboy

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 3,885 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:33 AM

If there was a 225 weight you would take away any advantage wrestlers have on Snyder, so matches like yesterday likely would not happen. It might be more competitive as a whole, but Snyder would run thru that weight even easier.


Snyder's biggest opposition is size/weight not wrestling ability. If there was a 225 weigjt i would say he would have a more difficult time with the middle of the pack wrestlers, but an easier time with the top wrestlers of the weight. At 285 he gets to wrestle guys that would not be able to hack it if they were proportionally smaller. But yes I agree he would still run the weight pretty easily.

Edited by BigTenFanboy, 04 February 2018 - 06:35 AM.


#46 Billyhoyle

Billyhoyle

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 2,793 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:34 AM

Saying any American without the initials JB is anywhere near Snyder's league speaks to the utter stupidity of 'some' American folkstyle fans. It is embarrassing.

This X1000.  Snyder made some mistakes in that match: mainly going for a throw and giving an automatic release...But he is easily still the best wrestler in the U.S. 



#47 maolsen

maolsen

    Bronze Member

  • Members
  • 427 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:35 AM

Hodge aside, which has more to do with pinning than who the better wrestler is...There are actually people who think Retherford is the better folkstyle wrestler than Snyder???

Apparently. I could see in argument for ignoring Snyders freestyle, if he wasnt doing the same things in folkstyle as freestyle, but he is. As far as Hodge goes, yes Zain is more "dominant". Also using the arguments presented earlier in this thread, then why is Snyder considered the best p4p in the world by many? His par-terre is no where near the level of some. His takedowns are enough to make him the best in the world, but not the best in college? Got it.

Edited by maolsen, 04 February 2018 - 06:36 AM.


#48 TBar1977

TBar1977

    Hall of Fame Member

  • Members
  • 11,604 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:39 AM

Apparently. I could see in argument for ignoring Snyders freestyle, if he wasnt doing the same things in folkstyle as freestyle, but he is. As far as Hodge goes, yes Zain is more "dominant". Also using the arguments presented earlier in this thread, then why is Snyder considered the best p4p in the world by many? His par-terre is no where near the level of some. His takedowns are enough to make him the best in the world, but not the best in college? Got it.

 

 

Different styles. If Snyder was clearly the best in collegiate folk, he'd be able to easily surpass what Zain does. So why doesn't he? 


  • Cletus_Tucker likes this

I have set aside funds to have six Green Bay Packers be my pall bearers, that way they can let me down one final time. 


#49 BigTenFanboy

BigTenFanboy

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 3,885 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:40 AM

So basically add in the larger 197s, but now they’re giving up weight to snyder.


Not if they bulk up on actual muscle.

#50 Billyhoyle

Billyhoyle

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 2,793 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:41 AM

Different styles. If Snyder was clearly the best in collegiate folk, he'd be able to easily surpass what Zain does. So why doesn't he? 

It has nothing to do with Snyder being better at freestyle than folk.  Snyder has nothing from the top position in either freestyle or folkstyle. It's the fact that he is so much better at the neutral position than Zain and everyone else in the U.S. that makes him the best wrestler in the country.  It's why Taylor would tech the same people Dake would beat by major, yet Dake was the better wrestler and could win the head to head matchups.  


Edited by Billyhoyle, 04 February 2018 - 06:42 AM.


#51 TBar1977

TBar1977

    Hall of Fame Member

  • Members
  • 11,604 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:43 AM

Keep in mind, in close proximity to his International success Kyle did wrestle 197 folkstyle, and he had L's. 


I have set aside funds to have six Green Bay Packers be my pall bearers, that way they can let me down one final time. 


#52 maolsen

maolsen

    Bronze Member

  • Members
  • 427 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:43 AM

Different styles. If Snyder was clearly the best in collegiate folk, he'd be able to easily surpass what Zain does. So why doesn't he?

Why doesnt he just turn everyone in freestyle? Different styles yes, but he is so good on his feet that even somewhat one dimensional (compared to the elite) that he is considered the p4p best in the world, and it translates perfectly to folkstyle.

Edited by maolsen, 04 February 2018 - 06:44 AM.


#53 BigTenFanboy

BigTenFanboy

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 3,885 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:44 AM

It has nothing to do with Snyder being better at freestyle than folk.  Snyder has nothing from the top position in either freestyle or folkstyle. It's the fact that he is so much better at the neutral position than Zain and everyone else in the U.S. that makes him the best wrestler in the country.  It's why Taylor would tech the same people Dake would beat by major, yet Dake was the better wrestler and could win the head to head matchups.


Unfortunately there's no way to prove this definitively like there was with Dake/Taylor.

#54 xander

xander

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 4,699 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:44 AM

I’m pulling for Snyder to get it
Tony Clifton

#55 TBar1977

TBar1977

    Hall of Fame Member

  • Members
  • 11,604 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:44 AM

It has nothing to do with Snyder being better at freestyle than folk.  Snyder has nothing from the top position in either freestyle or folkstyle. It's the fact that he is so much better at the neutral position than Zain and everyone else in the U.S. that makes him the best wrestler in the country.  It's why Taylor would tech the same people Dake would beat by major, yet Dake was the better wrestler and could win the head to head matchups.  

 

 

This thread is about the Hodge Award. The criteria there favor Zain, not Kyle. Heck, they favor Bo Nickal probably over Kyle. Nolf too had he not gotten injured. 


I have set aside funds to have six Green Bay Packers be my pall bearers, that way they can let me down one final time. 


#56 TBar1977

TBar1977

    Hall of Fame Member

  • Members
  • 11,604 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:45 AM

Why doesnt he just turn everyone in freestyle? Different styles yes, but he is so good on his feet that even somewhat one dimensional (compared to the elite) that he is considered the p4p best in the world, and it translates perfectly to folkstyle.

 

 

It doesn't translate to Hodge criteria as well as what Zain does. 


I have set aside funds to have six Green Bay Packers be my pall bearers, that way they can let me down one final time. 


#57 Billyhoyle

Billyhoyle

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 2,793 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:45 AM

Why doesnt he just turn everyone in freestyle? Different styles yes, but he is so good on his feet that even somewhat one dimensional (compared to the elite) that he is considered the p4p best in the world, and it translates perfectly to folkstyle.

If only there were a tournament where the best in the world compete of any age instead of just the best in the country enrolled in college. If such a tournament did exist, we would simply have to compare their relative results at sed international tournament.  



#58 Billyhoyle

Billyhoyle

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 2,793 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:47 AM

This thread is about the Hodge Award. The criteria there favor Zain, not Kyle. Heck, they favor Bo Nickal probably over Kyle. Nolf too had he not gotten injured. 

I'm fine with the argument that Zain deserves the hodge because he pins more.  I'm not ok with the argument that he deserves it because he is the better folkstyle wrestler.  Some people who clearly don't understand wrestling seem to believe the latter argument, while the former is very  logical. 



#59 TBar1977

TBar1977

    Hall of Fame Member

  • Members
  • 11,604 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:47 AM

And let me re state, in very close proximity to his International Success Kyle Snyder wrestled folk 197 and he had losses. His going to 285 and taking on relatively lesser athletes matters. But still he does not match Zain in Hodge criteria. 

 

Loved his win over Sadulaev, though. 


  • Peso likes this

I have set aside funds to have six Green Bay Packers be my pall bearers, that way they can let me down one final time. 


#60 maolsen

maolsen

    Bronze Member

  • Members
  • 427 posts

Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:49 AM

This thread is about the Hodge Award. The criteria there favor Zain, not Kyle. Heck, they favor Bo Nickal probably over Kyle. Nolf too had he not gotten injured.

Look at the first page where dmm listed people probably better then Snyder at folkstyle, you know, the post that you admitted getting drilled for making the same point.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users