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#141 PhiferFuqua

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:59 AM

I'm not sure what the loss to Coon changes.

The Ohio State fans argue that the committee should ignore the Hodge criteria and give the award to Snyder because of his world and Olympic titles.

He still has the world and Olympic titles.

Even if he loses two more times to Coon this season, those titles won't go away.

Shouldn't he still get the Hodge?

#142 TBar1977

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:29 AM

What if Coon pins Snyder, does Snyder get the Hodge then? Lol. 


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#143 tightwaist

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:00 AM

Dear Zain, you deserve the Hodge this year.

Sincerely,

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#144 dmm53

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:06 AM

I'm not sure what the loss to Coon changes.

The Ohio State fans argue that the committee should ignore the Hodge criteria and give the award to Snyder because of his world and Olympic titles.

He still has the world and Olympic titles.

Even if he loses two more times to Coon this season, those titles won't go away.

Shouldn't he still get the Hodge?

The answer is a resounding "no".   See the Hodge Trophy criteria below.   Snyder's admittedly great freestyle accomplishments might count for something in the last two criteria but not the preceding (arguably more important) five, which apply to the NCAA season, not international results:

 

Hodge Trophy Criteria:

1. Record 
2. Number of pins 
3. Dominance 
4. Past credentials 
5. Quality of competition 
6. Sportsmanship/citizenship 
7. Heart



#145 Plasmodium

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:43 PM

The answer is a resounding "no". See the Hodge Trophy criteria below. Snyder's admittedly great freestyle accomplishments might count for something in the last two criteria but not the preceding (arguably more important) five, which apply to the NCAA season, not international results:
Hodge Trophy Criteria:
1. Record
2. Number of pins
3. Dominance
4. Past credentials
5. Quality of competition
6. Sportsmanship/citizenship
7. Heart

NCAA is not part of the criteria.
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#146 dmm53

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 05:38 PM

NCAA is not part of the criteria.

I think it is implicit  and pretty clear that it is only college folkstyle wrestling (NCAA) and while it is not stated above, I'm pretty sure it is evident from the rules, history and tradition; but someone is welcome to check and confirm that.   A wrestler couldn't win the Hodge while only in high school or simply in WWE or MMA, right?  Or doing beach wrestling, etc.  It has also always been an award for the best *amateur* wrestler, which precludes the prize money that international athletes often receive.  

 

If you scroll down in the link below to the post on March 26, 2016, there is reference to an article for online voting that asserts that the first four criteria for the Hodge are the primary ones.  ( I couldn't cut and paste the text alone for some reason.)

 

https://247sports.co...Trophy-71765311

 

The Dan Hodge Trophy is awarded to the most outstanding college wrestler of the year. The trophy is given each season to the nation's best college wrestler by W.I.N. Magazine (Wrestling Insider Newsmagazine) and Culture House. It is the wrestling equivalent to the Heisman Trophy.  

 

Past winners:

 

2017Zain RetherfordPenn State2016Alex DieringerOklahoma State2015Logan StieberOhio State2014David TaylorPenn State2013Kyle DakeCornell U.2012David TaylorPenn State2011Jordan BurroughsNebraska2010Jayson NessMinnesota2009Jake HerbertNorthwestern2008Brent MetcalfIowa2007Ben AskrenMissouri2006Ben AskrenMissouri2005Steve MoccoOklahoma State2004Emmett WillsonMont. State-Northern2003Eric LarkinArizona State2002Cael SandersonIowa State2001Cael SandersonIowa State&Nick AckermanSimpson College2000Cael SandersonIowa1999Stephen NealCSU Bakersfield1998Mark IronsideIowa1997Kerry McCoyPenn State1996Les GutchesOregon State1995T.J. JaworskyNorth Carolina



#147 dmm53

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 05:59 PM

If we assume that both Retherford and Snyder win out (and for the purpose of this discussion we ignore other possible candidates for the Hodge):

 

1.  ZR will have twice the number of matches and wins than KS this year  (and unlike KS he will have zero losses).

2.  ZR will 3 or 4 (possibly 5) times the number of pins  than KS this year (and many more over his career we might add)

3.  ZR will have a much higher dominance rating based the statistical combination of pins, techs, majors and decisions than KS

4.  ZR and KS will have comparable past college credentials (3 titles).   KS will have placed second to ZR's 5th in the other (freshman) year, but ZR's overall record will be much better:  approx. 127-3 for ZR  to 74-5 KS  (50 + more wins and 2 fewer losses).

 

5-7  The last three criteria are far more subjective, less important in the decision-making (lower down the list), and arguably close to equal for the two wrestlers.  Even if you factor in KS's international freestyle wins and give him props for that, this doesn't clearly outweigh the primary focus on: (i) the collegiate wrestling and (ii) the fact that the Hodge is given for the best wrestler that year (not the best over a career), and it is here that ZR will have more pins, more wins, more dominance, and fewer losses.  

 

Note:  I believe only once has the Hodge gone to a wrestler who lost during the season.


Edited by dmm53, 12 February 2018 - 06:02 PM.


#148 Peso

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 05:59 PM

I admire Kyle as much as any wrestler ever.  In folkstyle, he's a gap weight guy who competes with bigger guys.  I agree he's not quite one of the GOAT in folkstyle, but he still may have that overall GOAT title once he finishes his brilliant FS Career.  In folkstyle, however, it's worth mentioning, that Gwiz kept Nelson from becoming a 3Xer, and he was definitely considered one of the greatest heavys in a long, time when Kyle beat him.  Gwiz placed 3rd in World his first year out of college, and we haven't had that many heavy's in top 3 period.  I would put Coon up against many of the great heavys of our time, and I think he would shock a lot of people.  Kyle is a tank, and he accepts any challenge, or challenger.  His greatness has raised the level of our World team, with his ballsy performances.  Kudos to Adam Coon...and Kudos to Kyle Snyder for laying it on the line every single time he gets the opportunity.



#149 BigTenFanboy

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:01 PM

If we assume that both Retherford and Snyder both win out (and for the purpose of the argument we ignore other possible candidate:

1. ZR will have twice the number of matches and wins than KS this year (and unlike KS zero losses this year)
2. ZR will 3 or 4 (possibly 5) times the number of pins than KS
3. ZR will have a much higher dominance rating based the statistical combination of pins, techs, majors and decisions than KS
4. ZR and KS will have comparable past college credentials (3 titles). KS will have placed second to ZR's 5th in the other (freshman) year, but ZR overall record will be much better: approx. 127-3 for ZR to 74-5 KS (50 + more wins and 2 fewer losses).

5-7 The last three criteria are far more subjective, less important in the decision-making (lower down the list) and arguably relatively equal for the two wrestlers. Even if you factor in KS's international freestyle wins and give him props for that, they don't clearly outweigh the primary focus on (i) the collegiate wrestling and (ii) the fact that the Hodge is given for the best wrestler that year (not the best over a career), and it is here that ZR will have more pins, more wins, more dominance, and fewer losses.

Note: I believe only once has the Hodge gone to a wrestler who lost during the season.


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#150 AKHUNTER

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:33 PM

I don't think Kyle Snyder was EVER in the running for the Hodge......... Too few matches And I don't believe the freestyle accomplishments have, nor should have, ANY effect on an NCAA Folkstyle award.

That said, I think he still wins the NCAA's.



#151 PANewbie

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:40 PM

If he wins out, Zain should get it if the criteria really is the criteria. 

 

If the both win out, reasons to give KS the Hodge:

 

1. His international folkstyle record

2. Ohio State only has 1 Hodge (not fair to the darlings of the B10)

3. PSU will have 5 if ZR gets it (Can't let PSU get too far ahead...Nickal or Nolf win it the next year)



#152 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 05:59 AM

If we assume that both Retherford and Snyder win out (and for the purpose of this discussion we ignore other possible candidates for the Hodge):

 

1.  ZR will have twice the number of matches and wins than KS this year  (and unlike KS he will have zero losses).

2.  ZR will 3 or 4 (possibly 5) times the number of pins  than KS this year (and many more over his career we might add)

3.  ZR will have a much higher dominance rating based the statistical combination of pins, techs, majors and decisions than KS

4.  ZR and KS will have comparable past college credentials (3 titles).   KS will have placed second to ZR's 5th in the other (freshman) year, but ZR's overall record will be much better:  approx. 127-3 for ZR  to 74-5 KS  (50 + more wins and 2 fewer losses).

 

5-7  The last three criteria are far more subjective, less important in the decision-making (lower down the list), and arguably close to equal for the two wrestlers.  Even if you factor in KS's international freestyle wins and give him props for that, this doesn't clearly outweigh the primary focus on: (i) the collegiate wrestling and (ii) the fact that the Hodge is given for the best wrestler that year (not the best over a career), and it is here that ZR will have more pins, more wins, more dominance, and fewer losses.  

 

Note:  I believe only once has the Hodge gone to a wrestler who lost during the season.

 

Nick Ackerman lost 4 times during the season and he tied with Cael for  the award.   

 

Brent Metcalf was pinned and he won it over an undefeated national champion.  

 

You can't put too much stock into the criteria listed.  We go over this every year.   They will give it to whom ever they want to have it.  They'll then fit the criteria around the selection.      If Snyder wins out, I would not at all be surprised to see him get it.  It would make me laugh a little, but there would be no surprise what so ever.  



#153 hammerlockthree

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 06:05 AM

If Retherford holds form he gets it hands down. Snyder's diminutive proportions can compensate for the mat work thing, but not an outright loss. 



#154 jammen

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 07:50 AM

If Zain gets beat who wins the Hodge?


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#155 TBar1977

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:02 AM

If Zain gets beat who wins the Hodge?

 

 

Bo Nickal, maybe Adam Coon if he wins out.


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#156 tabenn

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:26 AM

Snyder is so far ahead of zain when it comes to wrestling talent that it's not even funny. Zain can have the hodge (him and nickal are front runners imo) all day. I'm sure Snyder will wipe his tears off with his gold world medals..

there is a argument that Zain will have gold metals also






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