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Spencer Lee Arm Bar

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A question on the bar / chicken wing that Lee uses. See this a lot of college, not just from him. It has always been my understanding that the arm must be straight across the back. If the arm slides up, it is potentially dangerous. If the offensive wrestler puts it up, it is a penalty point. Never coached or wrestled at the college level. Is the rule different in college as compared to high school?

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I don't think the rule is substantially different, but I think that college wrestlers are more likely to show the ref that they have some control of the arm and aren't going to spontaneously rip the shoulder apart like a high school kid might.

 

I used to love walking that chicken wing over and finishing it off with a figure four around the guys neck (to lift their head off the mat so they couldn't bridge). Was a great pinning combination.  Figure fours are illegal now, I think :( 

 

One of the reasons I like Lee so much is he's so old school. I rode the same way (not as good, obviously), used a lot of the same stuff he uses on top. Lee's a throwback. Wonder who it was that taught him the old school wrestling methods?

Edited by TobusRex

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I used to love walking that chicken wing over and finishing it off with a figure four around the guys neck. Figure fours are illegal now, I think :( Wrestling just isn't as  "tough" as it used to be.

 

Unless I'm much more out of touch than I first thought, finishing with a figure four on the head/neck is fine.  You just can't apply the figure four from the neutral position.  

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Unless I'm much more out of touch than I first thought, finishing with a figure four on the head/neck is fine.  You just can't apply the figure four from the neutral position.  

 

How could a guy apply a figure four from a neutral position? Maybe some kind of weird scramble?

 

Thanks for the info though, but that makes me wonder why I never see it? Can't remember the last time I saw ANY wrestler do it. Maybe the cheap/easy tilts they do nowadays makes the figure four obsolete.

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How could a guy apply a figure four from a neutral position? Maybe some kind of weird scramble?

 

Thanks for the info though, but that makes me wonder why I never see it? Can't remember the last time I saw ANY wrestler do it. Maybe the cheap/easy tilts they do nowadays makes the figure four obsolete.

 

One wrestler shoots deep and comes up with his head between the legs.  The defensive wrestler who's draped over him could easily lock around the head in either a scissors or figure-four.

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Unless I'm much more out of touch than I first thought, finishing with a figure four on the head/neck is fine.  You just can't apply the figure four from the neutral position.  

Not in high school. Now I know this is a college board but this is an area where the rules differ. Just like the bow-back. 

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A question on the bar / chicken wing that Lee uses. See this a lot of college, not just from him. It has always been my understanding that the arm must be straight across the back. If the arm slides up, it is potentially dangerous. If the offensive wrestler puts it up, it is a penalty point. Never coached or wrestled at the college level. Is the rule different in college as compared to high school?

 

I've watched a lot of his matches and wondered the same thing. Unless a college ref answers here, I'll ask about it this week.

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Unless I'm much more out of touch than I first thought, finishing with a figure four on the head/neck is fine.  You just can't apply the figure four from the neutral position.  

 

 

Not in high school. Now I know this is a college board but this is an area where the rules differ. Just like the bow-back. 

I am out of the loop, then. 

 

When did they make the figure-four illegal in high school; I'm guessing within the last ten years?

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It’s funnynbecause I was just asking a friend about this about 2nhrs ago.

A question on the bar / chicken wing that Lee uses. See this a lot of college, not just from him. It has always been my understanding that the arm must be straight across the back. If the arm slides up, it is potentially dangerous. If the offensive wrestler puts it up, it is a penalty point. Never coached or wrestled at the college level. Is the rule different in college as compared to high school?

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"across the back" is one of the stupidest rules. 

Well if you are levering in an upward direction with the scapulae unable to lift it is a PD situation. When the arm is across the back it prevents an extreme lifting of the elbow reducing the chance of injury.

 

Now to be fair he's not lifting the arm in that position he's rotating back the going into a tilt and IMHO this should be legal at all levels from JR High up.  

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I do not believe they use different rules in this area just a different level of enforcement. it has been a couple of years since I read the college rule book and at that time it matched the high school rules in this area. I do not remember in any of the recent rule changes addressing this.  

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The lock is irrelevant of where it is placed.  What makes it illegal is the direction of pressure.  My guys use a parachute armbar where you lock over the shoulder but pull back the other way.  I had a ref call it illegal multiple times last week and I had to pull out the rulebook to show him it isnt the lock, its the direction of pressure.  Cupping over the top and then just slamming forward is dangerous and illegal.  Cupping over and pulling back is safe and the pressure is legal by the rules.

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The hold in college has the same definition as in high school and that is pressure against the long axis of the body is illegal.  A lot of time you will see the wrestler get the benefit of doubt and it gets stopped for potentially dangerous.  There are a lot of holds in college, this being one of them, that skirt that fine line between illegal and legal.  In college, there is a little more latitude; college athletes often have better control, know exactly what they are doing and know which way to take a hold.  Not necessarily true in high school.  I'm sure I drive some coaches crazy (high school) by stopping certain things for potentially dangerous.  But, it is how I see a hold being used and applied and what that joint looks like.  I think it is more of an art than science and the college refs have a little different perspective on the art.

 

As far as Figure 4:

 

High School:  Illegal everywhere (Head, body, both legs)

 

College:  Technical Violation on the head from the neutral position or around the body or both legs.

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