Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
williamhofithaca

Great National Duals!!!.... but

Recommended Posts

When it comes to dual meet wrestling it doesn't get much better than yesterday! Great duals, matchups, and a few epic upsets to boot.

 

Still from my computer, the stands didn't look very full. Unfortunately, no matter how successful the National duals become it is hard to envision large numbers of fans from non-qualifying schools flocking to the event. We are basically relying on fans from four schools. Consequently, National Duals may not be a great vehicle for showcasing the sport.

 

I agree that the dual meet is by far the most appropriate forum for deciding the team national champ. Nonetheless, I would be very concerned about the negative advertisement of having ESPN televise our "team national championship" with the stands half full.

 

When an AD turns on the NCAA tournament on TV he sees a packed house.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good points raised here. I think the National Duals couldn't have played out any more dramatically than they did, with stunning upsets, fan enthusiasm, momentum swings and electrifying emotions you can only get with a dual with high steaks on the line, and so on. Still, the stands were empty. The hotels weren't filled to capacity and people weren't flying in to town from all over like they do at the NCAAs. Four great teams showed up and still BTN relegated the event coverage to sub-par streaming. The announcers did a great job, but as SHP mentioned the connection was poor (not sure if the two connections were the same), but I had a lot of chop with my connection. The numbers are all that ESPN cares about and the NCAA championships brings in schools from all over and fits a model that is a natural evolution from the HS state championships, something we've grown accustom to.

 

I thought the National Duals action was greater than I expected and played out in dramatic fashion, yet the poor attendance is the problem I see going forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Where were the Gopher fans? Isn't their typical dual attendance much higher than this?

 

High school sections.

 

Exactly. There was probably almost no high school coaches, wrestlers, parents, or fans there. Our section wrapped up around 7 (an hour drive away) otherwise there would have been a lot of us going. I think the finals on Sunday would have been much better, when it didn't conflict with the high school tournaments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People can't travel all over the country to watch wrestling events. Nor can each event be held either in Iowa or State College in order to ensure attendance.

 

What's the answer?

 

I've gotta think it's Pay Per View. If you have 5,000 in the stands and 20000 watching on line, would that be considered good attendance? I have to think so.

 

I watched Friday nite but hated the back/forth between matches. I was interested in the Bucks v Mizzou. But I also would have watched Okie State v Illinois if it had been on immediately before or after.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i have been in this round and round conversation with pinnum for a month. he believes they can get 105,000 to attend 23 meets through the whole tournament if they have a 24 team bracket and bid the duals out to a host. he has been citing record attendance duals and thinking this model will work because the ncaa uses it with other sports. i have been pointing out record attendance duals either involve a top 5 program, promotion gimmicks to bring the dual together with another event (kids/hs wrestling or gymnastics), or two local rivals that have rosters packed with local kids. these duals are carefully planned around other important dates in the wrestling community. the ncaa dual tournament would happen during the absolute worst time of the year for attendance at these events. some states will be conducting their state tournament, which is bad. others will be having their section, district, or regional tournament which is way worse because 90% of the wrestling community will be tied up in their own wrestling event.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone think that trying to change season to Dec1- April would help in terms of being able to schedule events better and not compete with ourselves? It has been mentioned on several sites that this event competed with a bunch of St. championships and NCAAs usually run vs March Madness. Is there any reason that avenue can't be looked into?I have heard and read this idea before. The usual caveat has been it would compete with Olympic and World style season. It seems pretty obvious that is not a concern of theirs. It is also rare for guys to go right from college to worldstyle team to compete at the highest level.

 

I was hoping to see a much better attendance say close to 8-10 K for the finals. Anyone know what the online services were like. i tried to watch on BTN all pass. Servivce was horrible so i paid for MN, which was fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And we're still comparing the tradition of an event that's been somewhat static in its format for 80 years vs. one that's had a format for two years.

 

Considering the NCAA's only started to fully sell out within the last 10 years, it takes time to build a culture around an event.

 

It's apples and watermelons at this point to try to compare the two on equal billing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And we're still comparing the tradition of an event that's been somewhat static in its format for 80 years vs. one that's had a format for two years.

 

Considering the NCAA's only started to fully sell out within the last 10 years, it takes time to build a culture around an event.

 

It's apples and watermelons at this point to try to compare the two on equal billing.

 

you also cant neglect to look at why it is successful and the timing is very critical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ps: psu fans pointing to attendance of this event as proof their coach is right in his attempt to subterfuge the event.... sound a lot like someone who complains about not having money after they are too lazy to work.

 

 

Ha ha...or the kid who kills his parents then begs the court for mercy because he's an orphan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was an AMAZING tournament! I was glued to my TV, which was hooked up to Flo and BTDN. Attendance was abysmal, but I think that would change dramatically if an NCAA team title was on the line and the event scheduling didn't conflict with the high school tournament. I'm very much looking forward to next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyone think that trying to change season to Dec1- April would help in terms of being able to schedule events better and not compete with ourselves? It has been mentioned on several sites that this event competed with a bunch of St. championships and NCAAs usually run vs March Madness. Is there any reason that avenue can't be looked into?I have heard and read this idea before. The usual caveat has been it would compete with Olympic and World style season. It seems pretty obvious that is not a concern of theirs. It is also rare for guys to go right from college to worldstyle team to compete at the highest level.

 

I was hoping to see a much better attendance say close to 8-10 K for the finals. Anyone know what the online services were like. i tried to watch on BTN all pass. Servivce was horrible so i paid for MN, which was fine.

 

Very good point. High School wrestling is King in Ohio and probably most other states. It's absurd to have a major event at the same time post season hs tournies are taking place. I'd love to see the wrestling season from Dec to April That seems so much more sensible at the D1 level since these guys are not two sport athletes. I've gotta think there'd be a better chance to get larger attendance for major events.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You simply cant have this event at the same time as high school post-season events. Will never work. The majority of fans that attend college matches are also high school fans that will follow their local team in the post season before travelling across the country to watch the duals.

 

Make this a one weekend event in a single location, that does not coincide with high school post season and I think you'd see the attendance numbers rise dramatically.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO, despite the great match ups, this event will never get maximum attendance as it is currently structured.

 

With 50% (4 of 8) of the participating teams only getting 1 dual, what fan base is going to travel anywhere to support this event ? This is by far the largest factor preventing this event from ever growing into the kind of event that organizers hope for.

 

If they want to optimize attendance, give fan bases a reason to make the trip. Allow quarterfinal losers to wrestle a 2nd dual with the losers of these matches being done (but still 2 duals) with the winners advancing to a 5th place match.

 

This simple alteration would give 6 of the 8 participants three guaranteed duals with the remaining 2 teams two duals each. This by itself would give fan bases a reason to make the financial and time investment to make the trip.

 

I am certain that the nwca could figure how to incorporate these extra duals into a 2 day format.

 

Is the nwca willing to make changes like this to maximize attendance and make this a legitimate event ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyone think that trying to change season to Dec1- April would help in terms of being able to schedule events better and not compete with ourselves? It has been mentioned on several sites that this event competed with a bunch of St. championships and NCAAs usually run vs March Madness. Is there any reason that avenue can't be looked into?I have heard and read this idea before. The usual caveat has been it would compete with Olympic and World style season. It seems pretty obvious that is not a concern of theirs. It is also rare for guys to go right from college to worldstyle team to compete at the highest level.

 

Don't forget the timing of spring break in March, which was historically a bit of a problem for NCAA basketball attendance, too. Plus, April might make for easier traveling with better weather and all. It used to be impossible to get anyone to drive with me just from Chicago to Evanston to see a NU dual in January. Multiply that by a lot more for fans who want to road trip it out for away meets. Everyone says baseball is boring and losing its fanbase, but people make an event out of going to the ballgame (even if they're not paying attention to the game) because it's during the nicest time of the year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And we're still comparing the tradition of an event that's been somewhat static in its format for 80 years vs. one that's had a format for two years.

 

Considering the NCAA's only started to fully sell out within the last 10 years, it takes time to build a culture around an event.

 

It's apples and watermelons at this point to try to compare the two on equal billing.

 

you also cant neglect to look at why it is successful and the timing is very critical.

 

It's "sellout" success is only recent. The camaraderie with the travel and making it the one event a year is also a factor -- you're basically saying wrestling fans will only travel to one event a year.

 

That doesn't seem to indicate ANY event, duals or individual tournaments or anything, will be supported.

 

It's ONLY the NCAA championships and home duals for Iowa, Penn State and Minnesota.

 

Sounds like our fanbase needs to attend more EVERYTHING than just the National Duals. People aren't flocking to Vegas for the CKLV or Reno or Midlands or Scuffle for the same tournament format the NCAA has.

 

It's less about the format than it is it's a three-day event people go to every year. I'll go every year regardless of the team scoring situation.

 

Still don't think fans from Appalachian State are going to root their team on to hope for 22nd place every year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can someone remind me what was wrong with the exciting All-division event in Cedar Falls that drew a bunch of fans and brought the entire wrestling community together at one time?

 

Oh that didnt work 'cuz the NWCA had this other awesome idea that has completely polarized our sport into two camps and drew 2300 people to what could be an amazing event, and instead of focusing on the athletes and their efforts, we are griping about the actual event format. Mission accomplished Mike Moyer, great job.

 

BTW, I paid my $20 lastnight, the wrestling was incredible, March will be even better.

 

#CedarFallsPLZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...