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The escape that isn't really an escape


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#41 Crotalus

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 11:22 AM

This situation happened a bunch in today's Kyle Snyder vs Boykin match.

 

(I'm sure this link violates some sort of copyright, but here you can watch it)


Boykin was making no attempt to get up when Kyle gave him the opportunity. You can even see him look at the ref while he was on his knees and Kyle was not even touching him (4:00 mins). How could someone argue that the ref should not award the escape there when he could have just stood up and defended himself? Which is exactly what he did at 4:35 when he seemed to get the idea.


Edited by Crotalus, 18 February 2018 - 11:26 AM.


#42 Plasmodium

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 12:43 PM

W/R to the 4:00 mark only. Snyder controls and then releases. That is his call. Why does Snyder get to decide that Boykin is released in a situation that no person is going to call equal footing? He should be given opportunity at equal footing and he doesn't need to do it at the speed of light. Further, he can't just stand up. There is a dude hulking over him slightly to one side and he is disoriented. The reason Snyder is hulking over him rather than give him space to stand up is because he knows it's far more difficult to take him down if he actually makes it to equal footing!

#43 boconnell

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 12:57 PM

W/R to the 4:00 mark only. Snyder controls and then releases. That is his call. Why does Snyder get to decide that Boykin is released in a situation that no person is going to call equal footing? He should be given opportunity at equal footing and he doesn't need to do it at the speed of light. Further, he can't just stand up. There is a dude hulking over him slightly to one side and he is disoriented. The reason Snyder is hulking over him rather than give him space to stand up is because he knows it's far more difficult to take him down if he actually makes it to equal footing!

I agree.  Snyder is clearly infringing on his safe space.  If the ref won't protect Boykin than the campus police should.  #BoykinToo



#44 Crotalus

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 01:12 PM

W/R to the 4:00 mark only. Snyder controls and then releases. That is his call. Why does Snyder get to decide that Boykin is released in a situation that no person is going to call equal footing? He should be given opportunity at equal footing and he doesn't need to do it at the speed of light. Further, he can't just stand up. There is a dude hulking over him slightly to one side and he is disoriented. The reason Snyder is hulking over him rather than give him space to stand up is because he knows it's far more difficult to take him down if he actually makes it to equal footing!

I pointed out the 4:35 mark because it shows exactly what he should do. Get back to neutral and defend himself.

How long should they be given before the escape is called if they just don't stand back up (which is what happened at the 4:00 mark, in my opinion)? What do you do if they just refuse to take the escape? My issue is that this situation occurs because the bottom guy is trying to delay the match so they don't get scored on.


Edited by Crotalus, 18 February 2018 - 01:13 PM.


#45 BigTenFanboy

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 01:18 PM

I have no issue with the first 2 times Snyder did it. He clearly let's go of Boykin which is when the escape should be registered. The 3rd time he did it there was no break in contact and should not have been awarded at takedown.

#46 TBar1977

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 02:00 PM

Snyder vs Nevills. NaTo vs. Mattin. Snyder vs Boykin.

 

Ohio State clearly has this move down pat. 


Edited by TBar1977, 19 February 2018 - 01:17 AM.

I have set aside funds to have six Green Bay Packers be my pall bearers, that way they can let me down one final time. 


#47 Plasmodium

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 01:00 AM

I pointed out the 4:35 mark because it shows exactly what he should do. Get back to neutral and defend himself.

How long should they be given before the escape is called if they just don't stand back up (which is what happened at the 4:00 mark, in my opinion)? What do you do if they just refuse to take the escape? My issue is that this situation occurs because the bottom guy is trying to delay the match so they don't get scored on.

I agree that is how it should go.  It took 3 or 4 seconds and they were neutral. 

Do you have issue with how this ref was managing it?  It looked good to me.  During the instance immediately preceding the 4:35 mark he gave Boykin 5 seconds, awarded an escape and Snyder walked around for two.  That seemed fair. 

My issue here is that an escape shouldn't be awarded as soon as the offensive wrestler releases because they are not in a truly neutral position.  5 seconds of transition is reasonable to me.



#48 Medicine_Man

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 03:12 AM

I agree that is how it should go.  It took 3 or 4 seconds and they were neutral. 

Do you have issue with how this ref was managing it?  It looked good to me.  During the instance immediately preceding the 4:35 mark he gave Boykin 5 seconds, awarded an escape and Snyder walked around for two.  That seemed fair. 

My issue here is that an escape shouldn't be awarded as soon as the offensive wrestler releases because they are not in a truly neutral position.  5 seconds of transition is reasonable to me.

What??  WHAT???  5 seconds maybe if you have a hwt on his back and just stand up, letting him go...it might take a hwt 5 seconds to roll over on his belly and stand up, but other than that, if you let a guy go who's on his hands and knees, 2 seconds should be plenty....ref should fan his palm twice and award escape.



#49 Plasmodium

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 04:13 AM

Yes, it is reasonable.  Again, one guy is trying to square up and get up while the other is trying to maintain an angle and get a running start while his opponent has the weakest defense possible  It is not equal footing. 



#50 boconnell

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 04:24 AM

Yes, it is reasonable.  Again, one guy is trying to square up and get up while the other is trying to maintain an angle and get a running start while his opponent has the weakest defense possible  It is not equal footing. 

You refuse to accept that in the very specific situations being talked about, the one guy is NOT trying to square up or get up.  

 

If a guy is making any effort to improve his position or get up (even a slow one) then 5 seconds is absolutely not unreasonable.  If during that slow 5 seconds of improving position the top man jumps the gun and goes for a TD, it should be nothing.  But if the guy is trying to stay in the disadvantage position because he doesn't want to be in a spot he can be scored on, then he does not deserve 5 seconds of time wasting.  Make him wrestle, even if it is cautious and smart wrestling.


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#51 Plasmodium

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 04:29 AM

You refuse to accept that in the very specific situations being talked about, the one guy is NOT trying to square up or get up.  

 

If a guy is making any effort to improve his position or get up (even a slow one) then 5 seconds is absolutely not unreasonable.  If during that slow 5 seconds of improving position the top man jumps the gun and goes for a TD, it should be nothing.  But if the guy is trying to stay in the disadvantage position because he doesn't want to be in a spot he can be scored on, then he does not deserve 5 seconds of time wasting.  Make him wrestle, even if it is cautious and smart wrestling.

I absolutely accept that.  






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